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<blockquote data-quote="JohnRTroy" data-source="post: 4967121" data-attributes="member: 2732">I don't think we were saying there were absolutely no new games, rather, the state of new games seem to be in decline.&nbsp; White Wolf seems to be the only other big publisher.&nbsp; Chaosim is still around.&nbsp; But we had other good companies that were second-tier (not what I'd call Indy publishers), like FASA, West End Games, GDW, etc, all with good followings that don't seem to be the case this time.&nbsp; Outside of WW and Games Workshop I think most of the companies doing non-d20 variants are less powerful today.Take Steve Jackson games.&nbsp; There used to be 4-6 GURPS books released each year, In Nomine had a few good releases, etc.&nbsp; Now it seems like they are hurting more, and the decline started shortly into the d20 rise.&nbsp;&nbsp; Looking at their releases the last couple of years it's been kind of grim for new GURPS releases.And I notice less diverse companies at the big retail chains.&nbsp; In the 90s I remember they carried White Wolf, WEG, GDW, and a few others.&nbsp; During the height of the d20 market I noticed these companies got replaced by the bigger d20 companies (or sub-labels).I like to think of gaming as something akin to biodiversity.&nbsp; There should be alternative games on the market.&nbsp; The OGL was very seductive for publishers but I think in the long run it hurt the general game market--especially considering D&amp;D evolved into something greatly different and this caused sales of the related &quot;species&quot; to suffer in the market.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnRTroy, post: 4967121, member: 2732"] I don't think we were saying there were absolutely no new games, rather, the state of new games seem to be in decline. White Wolf seems to be the only other big publisher. Chaosim is still around. But we had other good companies that were second-tier (not what I'd call Indy publishers), like FASA, West End Games, GDW, etc, all with good followings that don't seem to be the case this time. Outside of WW and Games Workshop I think most of the companies doing non-d20 variants are less powerful today. Take Steve Jackson games. There used to be 4-6 GURPS books released each year, In Nomine had a few good releases, etc. Now it seems like they are hurting more, and the decline started shortly into the d20 rise. Looking at their releases the last couple of years it's been kind of grim for new GURPS releases. And I notice less diverse companies at the big retail chains. In the 90s I remember they carried White Wolf, WEG, GDW, and a few others. During the height of the d20 market I noticed these companies got replaced by the bigger d20 companies (or sub-labels). I like to think of gaming as something akin to biodiversity. There should be alternative games on the market. The OGL was very seductive for publishers but I think in the long run it hurt the general game market--especially considering D&D evolved into something greatly different and this caused sales of the related "species" to suffer in the market. [/QUOTE]

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