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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5282967" data-attributes="member: 78116">Yeah, but has coup de grace gone as a rule? To be honest, I would not be sad to see CDG go as a rule full stop and if this has gone it means unconscious isn't the "instant death" condition of 4E. You are already hugely penalized for being unconscious, taking maximum damage every attack is just throwing oil onto a raging forest fire. I really hope this is the case, because it makes unconscious a much more reasonable condition. For example, I can't understand what manner of demonic possession ever meant that Wizards thought Jackalweres were reasonable level 3 and 4 monsters. On the other hand, if coup de grace is no longer in the rules they are working with, then that combination of monsters is now just very tough instead of guaranteed TPK if you play them remotely intelligently.Unconscious/helpless is already -5 all defenses, no actions, granting combat advantage (so a total of +7 to hit really) and such forth. Removing the extra penalty of maximum damage on top of that just seems sensible to me. I really want to see that chart now - because they could have just moved coup de grace to unconscious instead.</blockquote>