NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7276540" data-attributes="member: 6880599">That is not mutually exclusive to a player knowing how to play their own class. A min/maxer will generally know and other sometimes don't. I have seen players so caught up role play they don't know their own spells. It bogs down the game if everytime a player tries to do something, the GM has to explain... sure your have that spell but it has nothing to do with what you are trying to do with it... player then tries to go through all the spells franticly trying to figure out there turn because their plan was based on abilities they never had. If a player doesn't know there class it drags the game for all players and it basically nurfs them. As a result even a soso build with a player who knows their class will seem like a min/maxer because of the effective power difference. They don't need to know every rule but there is defiantly an advantage if players know the rules that are particularly useful to them and what their class abilities/spells are.One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people who play D&D love the "Role play" but care nothing for the "table top game" part of D&D and vice versa. I find the game is better when you embrace both parts. They feed on each other. The "Role play" side as purpose, drive, direction and the "table top game" side provides the structure for players not to just escalate into "hu hu you missed me because I said so first and your dead because I shot you with.... my magic arrow of reaper which I just now created" on top of that combat also effects story when a player goes down or an enemy escapes, loot, health, needing to hide, and providing a since of real danger. The table top is an important part of D&D that informs the story, which is something a lot of "Role Play GMs" neglect. On the other hand, Role play gives each fight meaning and with out some back story just killing mobs over and over again gets old, redundant, and uninteresting even as a Dungeon Crawler which is something some "Table Top GMs" forget.  I also feel like min/maxers are sometimes part of a third group (which aren't really about being the most powerful) who simple enjoy "Theory Craft" which can be good. I know I do as a player. I like to build something interesting and useful which leads be create new and interesting backstories and characters. Designing a character initially as a part of function to inform story telling. This I am often told is backwards but I would point out that some authors write their first draft from the end to the beginning to give them direction and other write from the beginning to the end to let the story take its own course. Neither are wrong as long as the story ends up well. I think GMs should mostly leave players alone during character creation at least at level 1. Moving forward I can understand requiring a teacher to multiclass etc... but that's just my opinion. So back on topic, that's why feats don't seem to shift character power much to me, and neither does min/maxing. In the end, a min/maxer with a good plan and bad role can fall flat on his face while a soso character with a descent plan, a descent role, and some basic knowledge of their class capabilities can shine easily in a group of players that are good at the talking part of the RP but have no idea how to actual follow through with the game play part of the game.</blockquote>

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