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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7277117" data-attributes="member: 6880599">I am not saying your wrong. just that you can have just as much or more disruption with 2 "casual" players. Or any player that simply doesn't know how to play his own character and has to be guided/corrected every single match. Also, nothing about a min/maxer playing with casual players means they will cause disruptions. A min/max player could min/max any number of things but no player can truly be good at everything. A min/max player as the face/leader for the group, the healer of the group, the scout of the group, a damage sponge/tank, or a crowd control caster ... will have little to no impact on a game as long as another player does try and do the same job the GM can balance those tasks to that player. If someone does duplicate one of those jobs, then its not a matter of the the min/maxer's build but the duplication of jobs within a group causing them to trip over each other which would still be true if both players were min/maxers or both players were "casual".The only time people really complain about min/maxers is when it comes to damage per round. But what if everyone else ...took one of the other 5 jobs I mentioned above? (Face/Leader, healer, Scout, Damage sponge/Tank, Crowd control caster) Well unless you have more than 6 players... their is no problem with min/max because they don't conflict. If they do conflict... why not promote that those players break into groups some times? Example, The Twins on Critical role scout ahead as a pear quite alot. When one of them does it the team gets impatient for them to comeback, but when they go as a team its somehow cooler and they have each others backs. It is more necessary because the other players aren't there and its even possible to setup a quest where having a stealth team slide through and open a gate then attack from behind while the other player engage as a distraction could be fun and interesting. I am just saying what you you started to say, "min maxing is not good.  Its not bad either.  What it is?  Its just one style of play among several." but where I disagree is "And, in many cases, that playstyle can be disruptive to play when mixed with more casual styles." where you contradict yourself. It is just another play style and mixing play styles is where the GM has to come in. Sure your going to have problems once in a while and GMs aren't going to find the perfect answer all the time. But really its the players (including the GM) and how they play with each other as a team or against each other that causes almost all issues except not knowing hot to play their own characters. If players know their characters and work together as a team from group building, to roles, to tactics then the GM should be able to build a world where they are all useful and everyone has fun regardless of ANY character build. If there is problem because of a character build... It is almost surely a problem between player (GM included) and personal boundaries/opinions they made themselves.</blockquote>

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