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New Race for Review - Minotaur (civilized)
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<blockquote data-quote="redrover" data-source="post: 4375860" data-attributes="member: 70799"><p><strong>Initial reactions on New Text:</strong> Looks really good! Like the Ecology and Cultural stuff a lot.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Gore Proficiency #2:</strong> Should be Gore Focus.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>((Minor editing, examples from Physiology text:</strong> </p><p> *“and bestial to” sounds like it describes a behavior—maybe “and <u>appear</u> bestial to”</p><p> * you might check a dictionary on “anthropomorphic”</p><p> * “however,” => “, however,”</p><p> * “able of” is a bit awkward</p><p> * “a humans” => “a human”</p><p> * “connection…connection” is a bit repetitive</p><p> * general check—the plural of minotaur is “minotaurs” (at least in 4e) ))</p><p> </p><p> SPECIFIC FEATS</p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Mighty Swing: </strong>In my first post, I meant to offer <em>no</em> comment on the balance or lack of balance for Mighty Swing itself. My only point was that if rebalancing <em>was</em> necessary, then raising minimum attributes would be a dubious technique to achieve that goal. </p><p> </p><p> I will comment on balance now. To my eye, the combat detail looks OK on paper and seems in line with other powers. Allowing for the +2 racial Strength bonus, the feat attribute requisite of 17 is in line with other feats. The only thing left on this one is actual playtesting, IMO.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Ferocity:</strong> On comparing our campaign (which has no PC minotaurs) against this feat, I wonder whether this feat pulls its weight. Our fairly new group, six with two fighters, has had maybe a 9-10 significant combats so far, enough to hit 2nd level. Only one fighter has dropped – and only one time – in those fights. In our local play, if we had a minotaur, this feat would be used less often than the critical hit rules (the fighters have racked up three or four of those).</p><p> </p><p> I really like the way this feat tracks on the “book” racial traits. But is it really worth 1/18th of the character’s feat potential, considering the other feats out there? Would anyone take a feat with such a low payoff rate?</p><p> </p><p> I don’t know. Maybe this should go back to being a racial feat, and the player feat (Extreme Ferocity?) would be the same except it would be triggered by being bloodied? In our group, that one would have been triggered in almost every fight.</p><p></p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Battle Courage: </strong>As I recall, the trait of fearlessness is consistently supported, not only in game material, but also in novels that deal with minotaur cultures. It’s been a while since I’ve read those works, but that’s what I remember of them. I agree with you that fearlessness seems to be a trained trait <em>for humans.</em></p><p> </p><p> I am reluctant to assume the same holds true for <em>minotaurs</em> without rechecking what source material is available<em>. </em></p><p> </p><p> If there was an attribute for bravery, and humans came in at 10, I would probably peg the minotaurs about 14-15.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Direction Sense: </strong>On further reflection, after my last post, I think my critique of this feat is that, as it is currently written, there is just not enough crunch to allow consistent DM rulings. Take the following examples: Should the DM allow the feat to apply to these?</p><p> </p><p> 1. I want to know which way is north.</p><p> 2. I have been teleported 500 miles. I want to go home.</p><p>3. I have been teleported to another plane. I want to go home.</p><p></p><p> 4. I want to know where in the woods my enemy has fled.</p><p> 5. I want to know where in the city my enemy has fled. (Does your answer change if the city is exceptionally maze-like?)</p><p> 6. I want to get through this hedge maze in the quickest time.</p><p> 7. I want to get through this dungeon maze in the quickest time.</p><p> 8. I want to get through this magical force-wall maze in the quickest time.</p><p> 9. The tunnel has collapsed behind me, which way is out? (Does your answer change if the framing is “I want to go home” as per #2?)</p><p> </p><p> I think it would be hard to get five DMs to rule the same way on these questions with the feat written as it is now. A hard-line DM might allow only #1, while even the most generous judge might balk at #3 or #5.</p><p> </p><p> The traditional essence of the minotaur’s innate direction sense is comprised of at least the following elements*: </p><p> </p><p> 1. You are never lost. </p><p> 2. You can navigate any labyrinth with ease.</p><p> 3. You are immune to <em>maze </em>spells </p><p> </p><p> In addition, some sources make them very good at tracking.</p><p> </p><p> (*Note: I can dig out specific examples of these traditions if you think it would be useful.)</p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Minotaur Size</strong>: Ah! I hear you. I remember a similar incident with very skinny ogres some years ago. OK.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>On Goring Charge bonus: </strong>OK, I figured this was a judgment call one way or the other. I guess the only question I have left here is do you know if WotC calls it this way when <em>they</em> do bonuses?</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Next time:</strong> I will return to some ideas from my first post.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="redrover, post: 4375860, member: 70799"] [B]Initial reactions on New Text:[/B] Looks really good! Like the Ecology and Cultural stuff a lot. [B]Gore Proficiency #2:[/B] Should be Gore Focus. [B]((Minor editing, examples from Physiology text:[/B] *“and bestial to” sounds like it describes a behavior—maybe “and [U]appear[/U] bestial to” * you might check a dictionary on “anthropomorphic” * “however,” => “, however,” * “able of” is a bit awkward * “a humans” => “a human” * “connection…connection” is a bit repetitive * general check—the plural of minotaur is “minotaurs” (at least in 4e) )) SPECIFIC FEATS [B]On Mighty Swing: [/B]In my first post, I meant to offer [I]no[/I] comment on the balance or lack of balance for Mighty Swing itself. My only point was that if rebalancing [I]was[/I] necessary, then raising minimum attributes would be a dubious technique to achieve that goal. I will comment on balance now. To my eye, the combat detail looks OK on paper and seems in line with other powers. Allowing for the +2 racial Strength bonus, the feat attribute requisite of 17 is in line with other feats. The only thing left on this one is actual playtesting, IMO. [B]On Ferocity:[/B] On comparing our campaign (which has no PC minotaurs) against this feat, I wonder whether this feat pulls its weight. Our fairly new group, six with two fighters, has had maybe a 9-10 significant combats so far, enough to hit 2nd level. Only one fighter has dropped – and only one time – in those fights. In our local play, if we had a minotaur, this feat would be used less often than the critical hit rules (the fighters have racked up three or four of those). I really like the way this feat tracks on the “book” racial traits. But is it really worth 1/18th of the character’s feat potential, considering the other feats out there? Would anyone take a feat with such a low payoff rate? I don’t know. Maybe this should go back to being a racial feat, and the player feat (Extreme Ferocity?) would be the same except it would be triggered by being bloodied? In our group, that one would have been triggered in almost every fight. [B]On Battle Courage: [/B]As I recall, the trait of fearlessness is consistently supported, not only in game material, but also in novels that deal with minotaur cultures. It’s been a while since I’ve read those works, but that’s what I remember of them. I agree with you that fearlessness seems to be a trained trait [I]for humans.[/I] I am reluctant to assume the same holds true for [I]minotaurs[/I] without rechecking what source material is available[I]. [/I] If there was an attribute for bravery, and humans came in at 10, I would probably peg the minotaurs about 14-15. [B]On Direction Sense: [/B]On further reflection, after my last post, I think my critique of this feat is that, as it is currently written, there is just not enough crunch to allow consistent DM rulings. Take the following examples: Should the DM allow the feat to apply to these? 1. I want to know which way is north. 2. I have been teleported 500 miles. I want to go home. 3. I have been teleported to another plane. I want to go home. 4. I want to know where in the woods my enemy has fled. 5. I want to know where in the city my enemy has fled. (Does your answer change if the city is exceptionally maze-like?) 6. I want to get through this hedge maze in the quickest time. 7. I want to get through this dungeon maze in the quickest time. 8. I want to get through this magical force-wall maze in the quickest time. 9. The tunnel has collapsed behind me, which way is out? (Does your answer change if the framing is “I want to go home” as per #2?) I think it would be hard to get five DMs to rule the same way on these questions with the feat written as it is now. A hard-line DM might allow only #1, while even the most generous judge might balk at #3 or #5. The traditional essence of the minotaur’s innate direction sense is comprised of at least the following elements*: 1. You are never lost. 2. You can navigate any labyrinth with ease. 3. You are immune to [I]maze [/I]spells In addition, some sources make them very good at tracking. (*Note: I can dig out specific examples of these traditions if you think it would be useful.) [B]On Minotaur Size[/B]: Ah! I hear you. I remember a similar incident with very skinny ogres some years ago. OK. [B]On Goring Charge bonus: [/B]OK, I figured this was a judgment call one way or the other. I guess the only question I have left here is do you know if WotC calls it this way when [I]they[/I] do bonuses? [B]Next time:[/B] I will return to some ideas from my first post. [/QUOTE]
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