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Message: <blockquote data-quote="redrover" data-source="post: 4380672" data-attributes="member: 70799">On Ferocity: I guess we differ on this one then. I would have left it as a racial trait for consistency with the MM write-up, in full knowledge that it would rarely impact the game. Balance-wise it’s insignificant. In play, it’s notable and exciting on the rare occasions it has some effect, so why not? It’s flavor.However, I highly recommend removing Ferocity as a feat as it currently reads.  Idea: .How about tying this to the second wind. That is, the minotaur gets the free blow instead of the defensive bonuses. Example:   <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Extreme Ferocity: When you take      your second wind, you can make a free melee attack against an opponent      within reach. You do not receive the usual defensive bonuses for taking a      second wind.</li> </ul>   (That would put a cap on things mechanically, as it would only happen once per encounter unless some other special was in play.)  Conceptually, it replaces a defensive “pull back and regroup” effect with an offensive “adrenaline rush surge” effect. Might be a little closer to minotaur fighting style…  On Battle Courage: Great point. Good call.  On Direction Sense: Points well taken.  I have since gone back to some of the “civilized” minotaur material (principally DL Taladas) and found that your take on the civilized minotaurs is a lot closer than my memory of that material.     The classic minotaur direction trait, put into 3E terms, might have been conceptually defined as a find the path effect of infinite range and duration, but without the ability to walk the subject through specific actions and past traps the way the spell did.     We can always assume that this GPS ability was lost in the transition from the primitive to civilized state. (I don’t think the GPS is too powerful to give to players, but I do think it is too powerful to give to Heroic Tier characters.)     There have been direction-sensing abilities around for player characters ever since Tunnels & Trolls had a “Bump-of-Direction”,      At this point, the Direction Sense feat as written should not be confined exclusively to minotaurs, IMO. Any number of races or classes might have this feat in this form. From that standpoint, I would jack the Wisdom requirement to 15, and then give the minotaurs a special racial trait along these lines:     <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Natural Cunning, Preq. (Minotaur), (H):      You gain a +2 racial bonus to Nature and Perception skill checks.</li> </ul>    This gives leaves civilized minotaurs about where they were with respect to  Direction Sense without making it too cheap for other races in general.     Re: Question List. Your response here clarifies that we are now talking apples and oranges. You are talking about a direction-sensing power that any fantasy hero might have. I’m talking about a power that is specific and exclusive to minotaurs. (Aside: I agree with you on Q4-5, which I included because minotaur keen senses and tracking are part of the traditional minotaur “package”, and some of this still appears in MM text as flavor.)      Maze Powers: This is so thematic for a minotaur that I am reluctant to let it go without at least one more suggested configuration:     Maze Intuition (Paragon)Prerequisites: Minotaur, trained Perception. Effect: You are immune to maze powers. Further, you can easily penetrate to the heart of a maze or labyrinth, or find its exit. When you are seeking one of these and stand at an intersection in a maze, using a minor action reveals the quickest way to your goal.   Special: Once you have walked a path in a maze or labyrinth, you can faultlessly retrace your steps.      (The special is simple to run. Ask the minotaur player the place in the maze he wants to return to, calculate the time/distance on the map. Barring complications, he gets there. Done.)     (IMO this feat could be pegged at either Heroic or Paragon Tier. Instant gratification reinforces the racial identity, but putting it off makes it a milestone achievement, which is also good. I prefer it as a full adult power, so have pegged it higher.)     On Goring Charge bonus: Clarifying not easy, too little sleep. Let’s just leave it at this: When I am give damage numbers, I will give basic numbers and expect the reader to add in other applicable modifiers. (That is, I’ll adopt your approach.)  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Idea, Battle Lust</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prerequisite: Minotaur, Strength      17</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Effect: When you bloody an      opponent, you can take your second wind as a free action.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Special: You cannot use Battle      Lust and Extreme Ferocity in the same round.</li> </ul>   (For simplicity, the special might be dropped. The unorthodox tactic of blowing a second wind just to get a free shot that this configuration allows is interesting. The key question is, is it unbalancing? I think it’s close enough that playtesting is needed to resolve the issue.)    The "I was going to save these, but what the heck," dept.:    On Bull-Headed: Sure. As a consistency thing, penalties should be minimized. If this was a feat, the Diplomacy penalty should definitely go to -2. The bonuses, being racial, would stack with feat bonuses, and that is intentional and important.     Dimwitted: It looks painful (actually it is REALLY painful.)  Nothing says it can’t be softened, though. To make it squishy:      1. Allow a maximum of only one (or two) trained intelligence-based skills from class selection if they are available. Other intelligence-based skills can be trained with the feat Skill Training.         2. Dump the Intuition penalty.     Presto! A rubber mallet instead of a sledgehammer!  (*doink*)     Actually, this might be feat material, too, if it was the first part of, say:     <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dimwitted Brute (Minotaur)(Heroic)</li> </ul>   Along with, say, +1 hit point per level and Toughness, for example. The downside is that this would be an “only starting character” feat, and I don’t remember seeing too many of those in 4e, yet.     (The “+1/level hit point bonus” is very close to a +2 Con bonus, balance-wise; though you don’t get the Defense bonus, extra healing surge, or Endurance skill bump.)     Racial Trait Senses: Another way to come at the traditional keen senses of a minotaur is with a racial trait.   <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Keen Senses: When you choose a      class, you can choose Perception as if it was a class skill.</li> </ul>    This ensures that minotaur characters always have access to good perception if they want it. If they take a class that doesn’t support Perception that well, they can go with the race trait at the cost of being a little behind the curve in class skills. This trait does not alter the number of class skills chosen, which makes it balance-neutral in that respect.    Weapon Proficiencies: Consider swapping in “Flail” for “Greataxe.”  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There      is significant pre-4e support for the fail as a racial weapon.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e      flails tend to be under-utilized as a weapon choice. (How many PCs have you seen actually take one?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The      MM specifically gives a greataxe to the savage minotaur, so this would      distance the civilized minotaur from that archetype.</li> </ul>    Savage Minotaur: Want to ditch this archetype fast and easy? Change your page title to “Minotaur, Civilized” and you’re done.     And speaking of done…Ta, ta, for now!</blockquote>

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