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New Race for Review - Risi (giant-kin)
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<blockquote data-quote="redrover" data-source="post: 4411251" data-attributes="member: 70799"><p>Hi, finally got over here.</p><p></p><p><strong>Risi:</strong> Might be useful to see a write-up of these as a monster race, too.</p><p></p><p><strong>Weight:</strong> What you're looking for may be the square-cube law. Since you're scaling up height about 1.5 * human normal, this would scale your weight up about 3.4 * human normal (that is, 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5).</p><p></p><p>If you take 180 pounds as stocky human average for 6-foot height, then the weight for a 9-foot humanoid would come out somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 pounds. A 12-foot giant would come in about 1,400 pounds, or close to the weight of a warhorse.</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Traits:</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Elemental Resistance:</strong> Seems to scale reasonably. </p><p></p><p>You might consider advancing resistance in increments of 5 levels; that is, <u>resistance 5 + 5/5 levels</u> (or 1st=5, 5th=10, 10th=15, 15th=20, 20th=25, 25th=30, 30th=35). This gives more character milestones, all resistance stays in multiples of five, and this discourages DMs from trying to reverse-engineer existing monster resistances by monster level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Unmovable Mass: </strong>Perhaps a case can be made for holding against a <u>2-square</u> slide or push. They are considerably larger than dwarves and perhaps even more immovable. Or consider this upgrade as a Paragon feat.</p><p></p><p><strong>Half Giants: </strong>Maybe sharpen your focus by calling them "elemental half-giants". There are other half-giant races out there, and the suggested phrase is more accurate for your subject matter.</p><p></p><p><strong>Earth Half Giant:</strong> Hmmm, Fire=Fire, Cold=Water, Lightning=Air, and something is missing. Maybe Acid=Earth?</p><p></p><p>I could also see variants for Poison (swamp), Necrotic (shadow realm), Radiant (blessed), Psychic (Underdark), and Thunder (storm). Force seems a bit of a stretch (wild magic?).</p><p></p><p><strong>Stout Brawn:</strong> I wonder if this poaches too much on dwarves. Of all the traits, this one seems most expendable, should you want to cut down to a three-trait limit.</p><p></p><p>Did you consider any of these?</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Inate Toughness:</strong> Your racial build and power give you 5 more hit points at 1st level, another 5 at 11th level, and 5 more at 21st level. These hit points are cumulative with the Toughness feat, if you take it.</p><p></p><p><strong>Oversized Weapons:</strong> Perhaps add a prohibition against <u>light blades</u> and any weapon scaled to Small creatures<span style="color: white">. </span><span style="color: yellow">("Too small! Worthless in the hands of a Half-Giant!").</span> The prohibition against light blades could be lifted by a Risi Heroic feat representing special light blade training.</p><p></p><p>(ie: It's not optimal, but if you want it bad enough, you can get it.)</p><p></p><p><em>Heroic Feats:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em><strong>Low</strong><strong> Center</strong><strong> of Gravity: </strong><em>Seems OK</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em><strong>Mighty Charge:</strong> I don't like the way this can stack with Powerful Charge at this Tier. You can get +5/+5 at 2nd level! Maybe reconfigure:<strong><span style="color: lightblue"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: lightblue"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: lightblue">Mighty Charge (Risi):</span></strong><span style="color: lightblue"> <em>Prereq:</em> Risi, Power Charge. <em>Benefit:</em> You gain an additional +1 bonus to charge attacks and an additional +1 bonus to bull rush attacks.</span></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>(This gives the Risi a +1 push over other races if they concentrate on the attack form.)</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em><strong>Powerful Slam:</strong> Seems OK.<strong>Risi Weapon Proficiency:</strong> Seems thematic.<em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>General Note:</em> Consider increasing the Strength requisites of the Risi Strength-based feats by +2, to 15. This matches their +2 racial Strength bonus, keeping these feats in line with the standard feats of non-buffed races. </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: lightblue">Idea, Desperate Blow: </span></strong><em><span style="color: lightblue">Preq: </span></em><span style="color: lightblue">Strength 13. <em>Benefit:</em> You cannot use this feat unless you are bloodied. If you have not moved and your attack hits, you can add + 1d6 damage and be immobilized until the beginning of your next turn. At 11th level, increase to + 2d6 damage, at 21st level increase to + 3d6 damage. You can trigger this feat only once per turn.</span></p><p></p><p>(While this wouldn't be exclusive to Risi, I thought I'd throw it into the general idea mix.)</p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Paragon Feats:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em><strong>Improved Resistance:</strong> Seems way too powerful. MM p104, even Elementals don't get immunity from their element; why would an elemental half-giant?</p><p></p><p>First, I would re-peg this feat at Epic Tier. Second, I would give a +5 resistance only. </p><p></p><p>By making this an Epic feat, no one can put another increase above it. A +5 bonus brings the maximum elemental half-giant resistance to 40, or the same as an ancient red dragon (MM p83). </p><p></p><p><strong>Mountain Among Men:</strong> While it might be claimed that this is a limited case, it seems to me common enough to warrant only a +1 AC bonus, especially if the elemental half-giant is Large. </p><p></p><p>It might be the equivalent of the "Wall" bonus feat (which is +1) -- in this case, the half-giant is his <em>own</em> wall.</p><p></p><p>Also, Small folk like halflings and specialists like dwarves can get special attack bonuses against Large creatures, and I would be reluctant to allow a feat to completely negate these at Paragon Tier.</p><p></p><p>So, maybe keep this at +1 AC bonus, and perhaps allow an Epic feat to further raise it to a total of +2.</p><p></p><p>An alternative would be to shift this feat entirely to Epic Tier, giving the short guys the Paragon Tier to enjoy their bonus before an opposing feat occasionally takes it away.</p><p></p><p><strong>Risi Perfectionist:</strong> Good example of power creep. Most race-based skill bonuses are only +2 (dwarf/dungeoneering, elf/nature, dragonborn/history), thus the total train/focus/race package is +10. This suggests your perfectionist bonus should be a +2 bonus, not a +3.</p><p></p><p><em>In general:</em> Your attribute requirements seem a bit low for the Tier.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Primal Champion:</strong> I like this section very much.</p><p></p><p><strong>Titanic Retort:</strong> I'm not sure why you're using a Strength mod damage here when you used a Dex mod damage previously for elemental damage.</p><p>I would much prefer a "shockwave" effect that pushes opponents out of the half-giant's reach. Prone in a threatened square for multiple opponents seems an extremely strong result for this power level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Titanic Presence:</strong> The clause "until bloodied" might weaken this too much. In my experience, DMs tend to split into two camps. One concentrates on putting down effective PCs (especially when monsters are intelligent), the other spreads damage among PCs in order to keep the maximum number of players active. This dichotomy muddies the testing waters considerably.</p><p></p><p>If this was a monster ability, I believe most parties of equal level would negate it in 1-2 rounds, which is too soon, IMO. My strategy for an accurate playtest would be to run this intensively in a PvP environment and see what happens.</p><p></p><p><strong>Titanic Blasting Strike: </strong>You might find friendly fire issues cramp this one too much. If so, you might reduce the burst to 2 squares or just exclude the half-giant's allies from the effects (I rather favor the latter). </p><p></p><p>In any case, I would make 2[W] of the damage <u>energy</u> damage. (In other words, a "miss" deals only energy damage to the target, and a hit deals 2[W] physical damage + 2[W] energy damage.)</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Primal Inheritor: </strong>I like much of what I see.</p><p></p><p><strong>Practice Makes Perfect:</strong> Seems <u>way</u> too broad to me. Rerolls on attacks and damage seem to poach other race and class traits. I'd try just limiting this power to Skill and ability checks and see how it plays.</p><p></p><p>That said, maybe allow one action point to be spent on a skill/ability check per encounter <u>regardless</u> of other action point use in the encounter.</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Primal Recharge: </strong>IMO, this is balanced only if it can function a <em>maximum</em> of once per encounter. <span style="color: #ffff99">("It's a half-giant, Jim, not an energizer bunny!")</span></p><p></p><p><strong>Sweeping Strike: </strong>First, how can this <u>not</u> be vs. Reflex? How is armor going to help someone smaller and weaker than the half-giant against this attack?</p><p></p><p>Second, see Retort above. I'd recommend having affected opponents in reach pushed directly back out of reach. (Make them close all over again instead of just stepping in.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Giant's Charge: </strong>Not sure why you're requiring a minor action for this, unless I am misreading it. Can you do this with a non-charge move or is it charge only? If charge only, why the load of a minor action?</p><p></p><p>Suggest half-giant can move through squares occupied by <u>smaller</u> opponents. (Could he, for example, move through an ancient red dragon?)</p><p></p><p><strong>Fearsome Onslaught:</strong> This one looks really out of balance compared to Fighter powers.</p><p></p><p>The 6[W] matches Fighter 25th Encounter powers (PH 85) or the 29th level Daily (No Mercy PH p86), which is 7[W] and has no effect if you miss.</p><p></p><p>The additional 2[W] against a bloodied opponent seems rather like carrying coal to Newcastle. Strikes me as too lethal, even for a daily. It matches <u>double</u> the bloodied bonus for the Ranger's 27th-level Daily, though (Lightning Shot PH p 113).</p><p></p><p>I would suggest reducing damage to 4[W] and a -2 fear penalty to the target's attacks if bloodied (until unbloodied or end of encounter, one save only).</p><p></p><p>I would consider dropping the half damage on a miss.</p><p></p><p>I would consider restricting the secondary attack to those in reach.</p><p></p><p>I would give fleeing enemies a pass on opportunity attacks by the Risi that routed them. Otherwise, looks like the power just generates a bunch of cheap opportunity attacks.</p><p></p><p><u>An alternative <span style="color: lightblue">"Fearsome</span></u><span style="color: lightblue">"</span> might be to give the half-giant a +5 to all saving throws until either the encounter ends or a saving throw is failed. Or this might be the core of a new Utility power.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ritual: </strong>Seems in line with other rituals of its level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Testing Notes:</strong> To help ensure balance I think that a series of monster versions should be run against PCs to see if the powers are too lethal. Second, they should be run as party members to see how they fit in with other races. Third, they should be tested in party PvP to help compensate for variances in DM styles.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, hope you find this of use!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="redrover, post: 4411251, member: 70799"] Hi, finally got over here. [B]Risi:[/B] Might be useful to see a write-up of these as a monster race, too. [B]Weight:[/B] What you're looking for may be the square-cube law. Since you're scaling up height about 1.5 * human normal, this would scale your weight up about 3.4 * human normal (that is, 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5). If you take 180 pounds as stocky human average for 6-foot height, then the weight for a 9-foot humanoid would come out somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 pounds. A 12-foot giant would come in about 1,400 pounds, or close to the weight of a warhorse. [I] Traits:[/I] [B]Elemental Resistance:[/B] Seems to scale reasonably. You might consider advancing resistance in increments of 5 levels; that is, [U]resistance 5 + 5/5 levels[/U] (or 1st=5, 5th=10, 10th=15, 15th=20, 20th=25, 25th=30, 30th=35). This gives more character milestones, all resistance stays in multiples of five, and this discourages DMs from trying to reverse-engineer existing monster resistances by monster level. [B]Unmovable Mass: [/B]Perhaps a case can be made for holding against a [U]2-square[/U] slide or push. They are considerably larger than dwarves and perhaps even more immovable. Or consider this upgrade as a Paragon feat. [B]Half Giants: [/B]Maybe sharpen your focus by calling them "elemental half-giants". There are other half-giant races out there, and the suggested phrase is more accurate for your subject matter. [B]Earth Half Giant:[/B] Hmmm, Fire=Fire, Cold=Water, Lightning=Air, and something is missing. Maybe Acid=Earth? I could also see variants for Poison (swamp), Necrotic (shadow realm), Radiant (blessed), Psychic (Underdark), and Thunder (storm). Force seems a bit of a stretch (wild magic?). [B]Stout Brawn:[/B] I wonder if this poaches too much on dwarves. Of all the traits, this one seems most expendable, should you want to cut down to a three-trait limit. Did you consider any of these? [B] Inate Toughness:[/B] Your racial build and power give you 5 more hit points at 1st level, another 5 at 11th level, and 5 more at 21st level. These hit points are cumulative with the Toughness feat, if you take it. [B]Oversized Weapons:[/B] Perhaps add a prohibition against [U]light blades[/U] and any weapon scaled to Small creatures[COLOR=white]. [/COLOR][COLOR=yellow]("Too small! Worthless in the hands of a Half-Giant!").[/COLOR] The prohibition against light blades could be lifted by a Risi Heroic feat representing special light blade training. (ie: It's not optimal, but if you want it bad enough, you can get it.) [I]Heroic Feats: [/I][B]Low[/B][B] Center[/B][B] of Gravity: [/B][I]Seems OK [/I][B]Mighty Charge:[/B] I don't like the way this can stack with Powerful Charge at this Tier. You can get +5/+5 at 2nd level! Maybe reconfigure:[B][COLOR=lightblue] Mighty Charge (Risi):[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=lightblue] [I]Prereq:[/I] Risi, Power Charge. [I]Benefit:[/I] You gain an additional +1 bonus to charge attacks and an additional +1 bonus to bull rush attacks.[/COLOR] [I] (This gives the Risi a +1 push over other races if they concentrate on the attack form.) [/I][B]Powerful Slam:[/B] Seems OK.[B]Risi Weapon Proficiency:[/B] Seems thematic.[I] General Note:[/I] Consider increasing the Strength requisites of the Risi Strength-based feats by +2, to 15. This matches their +2 racial Strength bonus, keeping these feats in line with the standard feats of non-buffed races. [B][COLOR=lightblue]Idea, Desperate Blow: [/COLOR][/B][I][COLOR=lightblue]Preq: [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=lightblue]Strength 13. [I]Benefit:[/I] You cannot use this feat unless you are bloodied. If you have not moved and your attack hits, you can add + 1d6 damage and be immobilized until the beginning of your next turn. At 11th level, increase to + 2d6 damage, at 21st level increase to + 3d6 damage. You can trigger this feat only once per turn.[/COLOR] (While this wouldn't be exclusive to Risi, I thought I'd throw it into the general idea mix.) [I] Paragon Feats: [/I][B]Improved Resistance:[/B] Seems way too powerful. MM p104, even Elementals don't get immunity from their element; why would an elemental half-giant? First, I would re-peg this feat at Epic Tier. Second, I would give a +5 resistance only. By making this an Epic feat, no one can put another increase above it. A +5 bonus brings the maximum elemental half-giant resistance to 40, or the same as an ancient red dragon (MM p83). [B]Mountain Among Men:[/B] While it might be claimed that this is a limited case, it seems to me common enough to warrant only a +1 AC bonus, especially if the elemental half-giant is Large. It might be the equivalent of the "Wall" bonus feat (which is +1) -- in this case, the half-giant is his [I]own[/I] wall. Also, Small folk like halflings and specialists like dwarves can get special attack bonuses against Large creatures, and I would be reluctant to allow a feat to completely negate these at Paragon Tier. So, maybe keep this at +1 AC bonus, and perhaps allow an Epic feat to further raise it to a total of +2. An alternative would be to shift this feat entirely to Epic Tier, giving the short guys the Paragon Tier to enjoy their bonus before an opposing feat occasionally takes it away. [B]Risi Perfectionist:[/B] Good example of power creep. Most race-based skill bonuses are only +2 (dwarf/dungeoneering, elf/nature, dragonborn/history), thus the total train/focus/race package is +10. This suggests your perfectionist bonus should be a +2 bonus, not a +3. [I]In general:[/I] Your attribute requirements seem a bit low for the Tier. [B]Primal Champion:[/B] I like this section very much. [B]Titanic Retort:[/B] I'm not sure why you're using a Strength mod damage here when you used a Dex mod damage previously for elemental damage. I would much prefer a "shockwave" effect that pushes opponents out of the half-giant's reach. Prone in a threatened square for multiple opponents seems an extremely strong result for this power level. [B]Titanic Presence:[/B] The clause "until bloodied" might weaken this too much. In my experience, DMs tend to split into two camps. One concentrates on putting down effective PCs (especially when monsters are intelligent), the other spreads damage among PCs in order to keep the maximum number of players active. This dichotomy muddies the testing waters considerably. If this was a monster ability, I believe most parties of equal level would negate it in 1-2 rounds, which is too soon, IMO. My strategy for an accurate playtest would be to run this intensively in a PvP environment and see what happens. [B]Titanic Blasting Strike: [/B]You might find friendly fire issues cramp this one too much. If so, you might reduce the burst to 2 squares or just exclude the half-giant's allies from the effects (I rather favor the latter). In any case, I would make 2[W] of the damage [U]energy[/U] damage. (In other words, a "miss" deals only energy damage to the target, and a hit deals 2[W] physical damage + 2[W] energy damage.) [B]Primal Inheritor: [/B]I like much of what I see. [B]Practice Makes Perfect:[/B] Seems [U]way[/U] too broad to me. Rerolls on attacks and damage seem to poach other race and class traits. I'd try just limiting this power to Skill and ability checks and see how it plays. That said, maybe allow one action point to be spent on a skill/ability check per encounter [U]regardless[/U] of other action point use in the encounter. [B] Primal Recharge: [/B]IMO, this is balanced only if it can function a [I]maximum[/I] of once per encounter. [COLOR=#ffff99]("It's a half-giant, Jim, not an energizer bunny!")[/COLOR] [B]Sweeping Strike: [/B]First, how can this [U]not[/U] be vs. Reflex? How is armor going to help someone smaller and weaker than the half-giant against this attack? Second, see Retort above. I'd recommend having affected opponents in reach pushed directly back out of reach. (Make them close all over again instead of just stepping in.) [B]Giant's Charge: [/B]Not sure why you're requiring a minor action for this, unless I am misreading it. Can you do this with a non-charge move or is it charge only? If charge only, why the load of a minor action? Suggest half-giant can move through squares occupied by [U]smaller[/U] opponents. (Could he, for example, move through an ancient red dragon?) [B]Fearsome Onslaught:[/B] This one looks really out of balance compared to Fighter powers. The 6[W] matches Fighter 25th Encounter powers (PH 85) or the 29th level Daily (No Mercy PH p86), which is 7[W] and has no effect if you miss. The additional 2[W] against a bloodied opponent seems rather like carrying coal to Newcastle. Strikes me as too lethal, even for a daily. It matches [U]double[/U] the bloodied bonus for the Ranger's 27th-level Daily, though (Lightning Shot PH p 113). I would suggest reducing damage to 4[W] and a -2 fear penalty to the target's attacks if bloodied (until unbloodied or end of encounter, one save only). I would consider dropping the half damage on a miss. I would consider restricting the secondary attack to those in reach. I would give fleeing enemies a pass on opportunity attacks by the Risi that routed them. Otherwise, looks like the power just generates a bunch of cheap opportunity attacks. [U]An alternative [COLOR=lightblue]"Fearsome[/COLOR][/U][COLOR=lightblue]"[/COLOR] might be to give the half-giant a +5 to all saving throws until either the encounter ends or a saving throw is failed. Or this might be the core of a new Utility power. [B]Ritual: [/B]Seems in line with other rituals of its level. [B]Testing Notes:[/B] To help ensure balance I think that a series of monster versions should be run against PCs to see if the powers are too lethal. Second, they should be run as party members to see how they fit in with other races. Third, they should be tested in party PvP to help compensate for variances in DM styles. Anyhow, hope you find this of use! [/QUOTE]
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