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<blockquote data-quote="mmu1" data-source="post: 774366" data-attributes="member: 319">Assuming this race doesn't come with any extra hit dice, I'd be inclined to say this is actually a somewhat weak +2 ECL.Yes, they get +6 Str, but they get no Con bonuses, and two out of three of their penalties are to stats that matter even to fighters.&nbsp; They also get no natural armor bonus of any kind, which really hurts a Large creature with a Dex penalty.Their low Wisdom really hurts them, since they're only really playable as fighter-types, although that is partially balanced by the fact they're (presumably) not humanoids, so certain mind-influencing spells and attacks won't affect them.The Natural Cunning ability I don't particularly like, because it is a bit too powerful, and I don't like racial abilities that completely negate abilities certain PC classes rely on... The immunity to Maze doesn't really affect ECL, and is fine, flavor-wise.For a +2 ECL, I'd yank their Natural Cunning, give them a +2 Con bonus, as well as some natural armor.Oh yeah - do they have any kind of Darkvision? It'd seem logical that they do, given their &quot;natural&quot; habitat in myth, but you don't mention any... If they don't, they're definitely too weak for ECL+2 as is, if they do, then I'd revise my reccommendation...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mmu1, post: 774366, member: 319"] Assuming this race doesn't come with any extra hit dice, I'd be inclined to say this is actually a somewhat weak +2 ECL. Yes, they get +6 Str, but they get no Con bonuses, and two out of three of their penalties are to stats that matter even to fighters. They also get no natural armor bonus of any kind, which really hurts a Large creature with a Dex penalty. Their low Wisdom really hurts them, since they're only really playable as fighter-types, although that is partially balanced by the fact they're (presumably) not humanoids, so certain mind-influencing spells and attacks won't affect them. The Natural Cunning ability I don't particularly like, because it is a bit too powerful, and I don't like racial abilities that completely negate abilities certain PC classes rely on... The immunity to Maze doesn't really affect ECL, and is fine, flavor-wise. For a +2 ECL, I'd yank their Natural Cunning, give them a +2 Con bonus, as well as some natural armor. Oh yeah - do they have any kind of Darkvision? It'd seem logical that they do, given their "natural" habitat in myth, but you don't mention any... If they don't, they're definitely too weak for ECL+2 as is, if they do, then I'd revise my reccommendation... [/QUOTE]

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