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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2338652" data-attributes="member: 5777">Nifft didnt use any reasoning that is worth mentioning. I reword it slightly to apply to any race ever. If you ignore any and all downsides and only focus on the pluses then anything can appear overpowered.I shouldnt even have given it the amount of time it took to type my reply to him. It was obviously completely wasted time.Of course I handily dismissed it, just like everyone else should. It has no point and is completely useless for any discussion. Unless we are in a shouting match for who can shout the loudest I suppose.So you are saying that yoda believed everyone without ever asking for proof? I think you misunderstand his lessons <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />+14 base (one less than the straight psychic warrior) +4 str -1 size = +17 melee for a combined change of -1 to attack vs the psychic warrior.cool <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> not sure why I was thinking divided by 5.So it isnt a direct benefit of the race, it could just as easily come from any sort of multiclassing to get different base saves. Multiclassing in general helps increase base saves most of the time. So, while it is a benefit, it is more of a failing of the system than an actual racial benefit and should be counted as such.I actually posted them, but since I only did it on the first page it would be easy to overlook.Even in amount, but lesser choice. Human wins.The human has much better choices, human wins.In every way? I listed a bunch of different ways that each was ahead or behind the other.A big strength is being even? I dont understand, that just doesnt make any sense.In the case given here the human is ahead in some big ways and the Kri'Loroth is ahead in some big ways. This is very, very far from ahead in every way.making them not large would mean needing to get rid of some of the stat boosts, which then adjusts the rest of the race accordingly, essentially starting over again along with not being in line with the race that it is modeling after.The psi ability could be limited to just the two, do you really feel this is a big balance point? Does haveing a couple of extras as levels go up make it that much more powerful?The baleen whale is interesting. 3d8 hd, +8 str, +4 dex, +4 con, +4 wis, 2+int*6 skill points, +9 natural armor, large size, skills: listen, spot, swim. All he really does is hit hard and is hard to hit, 'very' hard to adjucate. I wouldnt want to try to put an LA on this guy, all of them feel wrong in one way or another.Still though, the list of pros and cons has big things on both sides at both the lowest level of comparison and the highest. If people literally feel that 2 manifestor levels and 2 6th level powers are that unimportant, along with less skill choice, less feat choice, then I am confused. But the list as I see it again:Pro: +20hp, +1 ini, +1 damage, low light vision, psi-ability, +1 reflex, +4 willCon: -1 AC flatfooted, -1 BAB, -1 to hit, lesser skill choice for 20 points, lesser feat choice for 2 feats, 2 less 6th level powers known, 2 less manifestor levelsDefinately not better than the human in every way. What has been left out? What about the first line is incredibly powerful compared to the second?</blockquote>

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