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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2338765" data-attributes="member: 5777">If you say so. Werk was the first to throw stones and then some others joined in. I have only responded rudely to people who were rude. Treat in kind ::shrugs:: if you feel that they were not rude and I was that is your call of course.The people who are nice get nice responses in return, IcyCool and I are having a civil discussion.I dismissed comments that were not relevant to the topic or not helpful to actually finding a good way to do this. That is not treating them poorly, it is merely trying to get real information.They might have the best idea in the world and know exactly what the problem is, but how am I supposed to know without supporting evidence? Why should I bother with random comments that dont pertain to the subject? I have asked this a few times and no one has answered except with more of this sort of thing. Avoiding the subject I guess. Easier to attack instead of defend the position.Now for the all important question, 'why? compared to what?'There is a high level and a low level comparison now. If you can point to one of those and say, 'this is unbalanced and here is why' then go for it, if not then make up your own example, if you can do neither then all the extra racial hd or LA is just a guess without any ability to know if it is a good one or not.If the math is already done then why not post it?It was part of your edit, so I did miss it. Lets look over it then.• +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity• Giant• Medium • Half-giant base land speed is 30 feet.• Low-Light Vision• Fire Acclimated: Half-giants have a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against all fire spells and effects. Half-giants are accustomed to enduring high temperatures.• Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.• Naturally Psionic: Half-giants gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.• Psi-Like Ability: 1/day—stomp. Manifester level is equal to 1/2 Hit Dice (minimum 1st). The save DC is Charisma-based.• Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Ignan.• Favored Class: Psychic warrior.• Level Adjustment: +1.ok, so we have these differences (note, they are absolute, so the dex bonus will seem extreme):+4 dex, +2 int, +2 wis, +2 cha in favor of the Kri'Lorothgiant vs aberrationmedium vs largepowerful build vs weak buildfire acclimated for half-giants2 pp vs 1pp/hdpsi-ability for Kri'LorothStomp 1/day for half-giant2 bonus psionic feats for Kri'Loroth+1 LA vs 2hdfavored class psychic warrior vs psionic classok, so the halfgiant counts as large in pretty much every way that matters but doesnt get the penalties. The Kri'Loroth counts as medium in pretty much every way that mattes + gets the penalties of being large.The Kri'Loroth has better stat boosts, more pp eventually, 2 more psionic feats.The half-giant gets stomp 1/day, fire acclimation.The Kri'Loroth has 2 hd, the Halfgiant has LA +1.I think I covered everything.who is better off I think is a tough call. The Kri'Loroth has more beanies and some are very nice, true. However, the half-giant has a class level over him along with getting boosts in grapple, hiding, and, maybe the most important, in damage potential.The half-giant will tend to wind up doing much more damage (1 weapon size increase, +1 to hit, one more level of class abilities) than the Kri'Loroth while the Kri'Loroth has advantages in other directions.Can you say that one is definately better than the other all of the time as you said in your previous post?I dont mind changing it, if there is a reason to do so. Saying that it is 'definately' in need of change without any proof doesnt help, giving proof is what is needed.Do you have any examples of this off hand? If you do, how many counterexamples do I have to give before you would be convince that it is not?While many psionic feats have bigger numbers they also generally need focus to work, which is 'highly' limiting.In any event, having an 'any' feat is a much, much more powerful option than a 'psionic feat'. Do you agree?Which means that having a bonus to all will rarely help a character more than having a bonus to 2 or 3 of the stats. But, by having an equal bonus to each it does not push towards or away from any class.Overall though what stat is best depends on a lot of different factors, generally none is better than the others by itself.This I very much disagree with. A +4 to a single stat is much better than a +2 to 2 stats. A single high plus is easier to min/max than the others and can cause problems more easily. But, it also does not mean that any other race should not be tried to be judged on an equal basis with the core races.As a wild example, we have race 1 which is balanced, then race 2 is based off of it but isnt perfectly balanced for whatever reason, then race 3 is based off of race 2, then race 4 based off of race 3.. eventually you have some wild fluctuations well outside of the control of any system. Better to just base it off of race 1 each time to some degree. Much like with systems of measurement you always go as close back to the original as possible instead of copies of copies of copies of copies.And just as stupid to ignore low level comparisons. A race should be as closed to balanced over the entire range as possible.Trying to convert everything to feats is always a bad move. It rarely translates well, especially over such a wide range. I dropped something earlier about the large sized penalties and two feats, but it wasnt a big comparison, just to get an idea. Comparing whole classes/races in this way and nothing will ever be balanced to one another. Especially as some things are worth more than others at levels.As an easy example, one could easily say that +2 str is worth an unbounded number of feats: weapon focus for every weapon ever, weapon specialization for every weapon everNow, obviously this is meaningless. But it shows a problem. Where does one draw the line? If each stat is roughly equivalent but you rate one as 4 feats but another as 2 feats that means you believe that one stat is twice as good as the other in general. I very much disagree with that assessment.So, you are saying that 2 psionic feats are worth more than 2 feats?I dont want to be insulting, but this is crazy talk. This is why I want people to give their reasonings so that I know which to count and which to discount. Saying that a feat is worth more than a feat (or, in math terms 1>1) just doent make any sense at all.It also begs the question: Normal feats? what are they? I woudl consider a humans feat to be 'normal', you can choose from any feat that you qualify for. Strangely, that means that psionic feats can be included in this subset, which means to me that you are saying that a huge set is less than a subset of that huge set.I know you dont want to hear this, but I dont think that the feat comparison really holds up under scruitiny. I know you put a lot of effort into it and my throwing it away as something that does not help me might upset you, and I am sorry about that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> But I can only use comparisons that I feel are at least somewhat valid, I dont feel that with the feat conversion way.</blockquote>

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