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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bront" data-source="post: 2339310" data-attributes="member: 19696">I've given you examples using the RAW to use as a guide.  You agree with the ones you like, and argue that the ones you don't like are broken.  However, you seem to like having it both ways, and seem stuck on one particular template as to powerful but broken at the same time, and almost all others are not.Here's an LA +1 base race with 2 Racial HD.So, they line up reasonaly equal to or better than the Lizardfolk.  So, at least an LA +1 with the 2 racial HD is right.You agree that your sample size is small, but then say it's not your fault?  If you're testing out a race, you should build several different builds and track the results of those builds over the levels.  In every example I've seen of a 20th level character, the issues of the improved stats has shown that it is quite good.  I can do one easily, so I will.Atribute bonuses were not added, but could easily be added to Str, Dex, or Con without changing anything realy big.Assuming average rounded up for HDKri'Loroth Fighter 18HD: 2d8+18D10+60 (181)Init: +3AC: 12 (F:9, T: 12)BAB: +19Fort +14, Ref +9, Wil +11Abilities: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10Size: Large  (10x10)Speed: 30' (Assuming that's what you wanted)Reach: 10'Grapple: +22 (Not +26 for large size still? not sure how the weak build works)Melee: +22, +4 or 6 to damageRanged: +21Feats: 7 normal, 10 fighter, 2 psionicSkills: 20 racial, 72 fighterPP: 20Human Fighter 20HD: 20D10+40 (164)Init: +2AC: 12 (F:10, T: 12)BAB: +20Fort +14, Ref +8, Wil +7Abilities: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 8Size: MediumSpeed: 30'Reach: 5'Grapple: +23Melee: +23, +3 or 4 to damageRanged: +22Feats: 8 normal, 11 fighter (Human feat is an extra normal feat at 1st)Skills: 92 fighterPP: 0You end up loosing out on to hit bonus (And 1 itterative attack, though at -15), gaining almost 20 hp, gaining +1 Ref and +4 Will save, AC is nearly identical, you get reach, and do a bit more damage due to increased strength.  Skills are almost a wash (Fighter probably has a slightly better selection), and feats are different.  You loose out on flexability, but since you can take the psionic feats naturaly, either you gain 1 feat over the fighter (who needs to take wild talent if he wants psionic feats), or you gain access to some of the psionic feats that can be easily usefull (Psionic Dodge, Psionic Body, Speed of Thought) where the normal fighter does not have these.  Plus, being large, the Kri'Loroth can carry more (one of the things that doesn't change with the weak build).So, looking at this, and the other compairisons, I do think that +1 LA is called for in addition to everything else.  I could see more, but at least +1 LA and 2 Racial HD.LA <> Racial HD as a modifier.  Quick proof (Assuming that your race is now a +2 LA instead of +2 Racial HD.Kri'Loroth Fighter 18HD: 18D10+54 (166)Init: +3AC: 12 (F:9, T: 12)BAB: +18Fort +14, Ref +9, Wil +8Abilities: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10Size: Large  (10x10)Speed: 30' (Assuming that's what you wanted)Reach: 10'Grapple: +21 (Not +25 for large size still? not sure how the weak build works)Melee: +21, +4 or 6 to damageRanged: +20Feats: 7 normal, 10 fighter, 2 psionicSkills: 84 fighterPP: 18Still somewhat compairable to the 20th human fighter, though yes, slightly inferior in a few critical ways.  Not gamebreaking, and some people could call this balanced.So, LA +2, or LA +1 and 2 Racial HD seem about right, given this and the other examples.You want more, make them yourself.  While I appreciate the chance to discuss abstract ideas like LA and RHD, I don't need to be building fake characters for you to test your race.  That should be something you do.Honestly, I think you're too close to this, being your baby, to take much of this criticism as it is intended.  You've been defensive in your responces, and have generaly come accross as rude, and unwilling to see anyone elses point.  I'm not trying to name call, or attack you, simply tell you how you have come accross to me so far, and how it seems you have come accross to several others based on comments here.Again, hope this helps.</blockquote>

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