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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6050490" data-attributes="member: 6674889">..Fair enough, but D&D is not a movie or a novel, either. The dice rolls should matter.Your reward for getting to level 9, in a party with a cleric, is that you can continue your character if he dies, without going on any expensive begging quests from NPCs. Then, at the level where the cleric gains true resurrection spell, it becomes a question of : The cleric must live! Again, it's balanced by the fact that clerics can die too, and if they die during a dungeon crawl, the rest of the party is screwed. Also, most campaigns never get to that level, and most PCs never survive that high. Or shouldn't. That's the real balance. It's miraculous and biblical and only a handful of high-level clerics have ever been known to do it. The rarity thereof should be a natural result of the weening off of PC or NPC survivability to get to that level. Eventually you are going to fail that save, and die. That's life.I don't see Raise Dead as an option in D&D. If you play by the rules, and don't fugde dice rolls, characters should die. Then at level 9, it becomes not so bad, but not unlimited either, if you have a Con penalty and a chance of perma-death on top of that. That's scary, once you've invested a large amount of effort into your character. Again, D&D characters should NOT have plot immunity. If a DM wishes to fudge a die behind the curtain, that's his prerogative, to keep the story going. He can also say you die, but here's this wonderful high level cleric who ressez you because your quest is of vital importance to the universe. And if everybody dies and the quest fails...that's good! Why do I say that? Because if there is no real chance of actual failure to complete the campaign, what is the reward? An interactive story, where no matter what the good guys win.Raise Dead NEEDS to be in D&D, because it allows you a greater chance to achieve those tough end-goals in a setting that is SUPPOSED to be lethal. If you don't wish to play a lethal game, adjust the healing rate dials,  place easier enemies, drop a few more scrolls, add an NPC who pops in and brings you back to life. As a consequence of having a default game where you are expected to die early, and often, Raise Dead doesn't provide plot immunity, but a plot cushion for unlucky dice rolls or just player mistakes. DMs are god, they can make anything happen. You have a TPK? Maybe the gods need you to survive to finish your quest. It's like activating the Omega-13. I'd rather it was done that way, in rare circumstances, rather than a constant fudging of the dice.Taking away Raise Dead spell from clerics takes away one of the HUGE reasons for playing one. It's the biggest thing to look forward to, getting to level 9 when you have 5th level spells. Maybe in D&D Next they adjust which level Raise Dead is on...but it should have a permanent Con point penalty and a system shock roll. Dying is bad, mkay. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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