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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KidSnide" data-source="post: 5735399" data-attributes="member: 54710">This is really part of a broader issue, in that the designers haven't really figured out how to deal with magic that duplicates skill abilities.  If it's a bonus to skill abilities, than you need to adjust DCs on the basis that all PCs will have these bonuses.  If it's a replacement for skill, then you end up with the super-arcana wizard who is just as good as (or better than) the other PCs in their areas of specialty.I think the right answer is to make rituals orthogonal to skills whenever possible and have a downside.  For example, rituals should provide effects like invisibility that makes it much easier to hide (since you are always concealed), but should still require a stealth roll to move around without being detected.  A downside to invisibility could be that you are easily detected by wards designed to trigger when illusion magic enters the area.  With a ritual like that, it becomes a meaningful and interesting choice about when to use the ritual and how.  Of course, if rituals are going to be useful and powerful, there needs to be some sort of restriction to prevent everyone from taking all the best ones.Giving magic a downside can be a little difficult (although money and healing surge costs help), but I think good general advice should be the magical wards and defenses should be better at detecting and stopping magic than they are at detecting and stopping extremely skilled non-magical individuals.  For example, a charm might be really effective on your average orc or peasant, but would be chancier on a properly warded noble.-KS</blockquote>

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