New Rogue Subclass - Scoundrel (in progress)

[Archade]

Hey all,

I'm looking at building a new subclass for rogue that doesn't involve stealing or assassination, but instead uses fast talking and quick action. This would be appropriate for Han Solo, Fafhrd, Goblin (The Black Company), or Silk (the Belgariad). Here's my rough ideas, and I'd love some feedback or suggestions

3rd level - Fast Talker - allowed to make a Persuasion roll as an Action at disadvantage.
3rd level - Nimble Feet - allowed to make a Dex check vs. DC 10 + Attack Bonus to move past without AoO
9th level - Silver Tongue - allowed to make a Persuasino roll as an Action, no disadvantage
13th Level - Just Lucky - allowed to make one roll at advantage, recharge with long rest
17th Level - Situational Awareness - cannot be surprised, advantage on all initiative checks.

Suggestions or thoughts?

 

[peterka99]

What use is persuasion in combat ? There is the first question to answer... Usually a surrender offer is a free bonus action to me and my DM friends..

 

[jadrax]

3rd level - Nimble Feet - allowed to make a Dex check vs. DC 10 + Attack Bonus to move past without AoO

Suggestions or thoughts?

This overlaps (and is actually worse) with the optional Tumble action in the DMG.

Actually and I would think you can also just make a Charisma (Persuade) skill check in combat as an action anyway, so that ability is removing a restriction that I do not believe exists?

 

[Quickleaf]

Hey all,

I'm looking at building a new subclass for rogue that doesn't involve stealing or assassination, but instead uses fast talking and quick action. This would be appropriate for Han Solo, Fafhrd, Goblin (The Black Company), or Silk (the Belgariad). Here's my rough ideas, and I'd love some feedback or suggestions

A fine endeavor and a concept much needed in the game!

3rd level - Fast Talker - allowed to make a Persuasion roll as an Action at disadvantage.

3rd level - Nimble Feet - allowed to make a Dex check vs. DC 10 + Attack Bonus to move past without AoO.

I would change this up:

3rd Level - Scoundrel's Cunning: When using your bonus action granted by Cunning Action you may Tumble, X, Y, and Z.

3rd Level - Fast Talk: When engaging an enemy who can hear and understand you, you may attempt to fast talk. You may only fast talk one creature each round. Make a Charisma (Deception or Persuasion) check, opposed by their Insight wisdom check. If you succeed, the creature cannot take reactions or bonus actions until the end of its next turn as it is so befuddled by your words.

9th level - Silver Tongue - allowed to make a Persuasino roll as an Action, no disadvantage

This needs to change. Maybe make it into a perfect innuendo? So you can send secret messages to any target or targets you are talking with flawlessly so that no others understand or even realize you're communicating secret messages right under their nose? That seems to fit the archetype and is a pretty powerful social ability, actually.

13th Level - Just Lucky - allowed to make one roll at advantage, recharge with long rest

This looks an awful lot like the 9th level Fighter ability...I forget the name...and as a matter of ersonal taste it lacks flavor. Think what other cool things those characters you list do in their respective books/movies, and come up with a new idea.

17th Level - Situational Awareness - cannot be surprised, advantage on all initiative checks.

The general idea is a good one, the execution needs work. Advantage on initiative checks is a cool, but basically this is very similar to the Alert feat...which I guess is fine in a game with no feats...but in general duplicating a feat within a class isn't good design.

I would consider riffing off of the "Han shot first" meme. Maybe something like...

17th Level - Preemptive Awareness - When you roll initiative, so long as you aren't surprised, you may use a bonus action granted by your Cunning Action feature or make a Wisdom (Perception) check before any other creature can act. This occurs completely outside of the normal turn sequence.

Hope that helps, mate

 

[peterka99]

Rogue Archetype- Scoundrel (my modifications)


Scoundrel's Cunning
At the 3^rd level and thereafter , When using your bonus action granted by Cunning Action you may perform any social interaction check, including this archetype special abilities.

Fast Talk
At the 3^th level and thereafter ,When engaging an enemy who can hear and understand you, you may attempt to fast talk. You may only fast talk one creature each round. Make a Charisma (Deception or Persuasion) check, opposed by their Insight wisdom check. If you succeed, the creature cannot take reactions or bonus actions until the end of its next turn as it is so befuddled by your words.

Preemptive Awareness
At the 9^th level and thereafter, When you roll initiative, so long as you aren't surprised, you may use a bonus action granted by your Cunning Action feature or make a Wisdom (Perception) check before any other creature can act. This occurs completely outside of the normal turn sequence.

Taunter
At the 9^rd level and thereafter, You can be a real pest with your tongue. As a bonus action, one creature who can hear and understand you will attack you with a disadvantage (like Dragonlance's Kenders) for the next round. The creature should disengage from any other fight as if affected by a magical suggestion. A saving throw is allowed to disregard this effect, with a dc equals to 8+ performance skill modifier. A creature who succeeds her saving throw is immune to the Taunt for 24 hours.

Dazing deception
At the 13^rd level and thereafter , the scroundel deception is so convincing that any enemy who can see or hear you cannot take actions, just reactions or bonus actions for the next round ( ex: the foe take the entire round to extinguish an imaginary fire ). You may only daze one creature each round. A saving throw is allowed to disregard this effect, with a dc equals to 8+ deception skill modifier. A creature who succeeds her saving throw is immune to the dazing deception for 24 hours.

Charmer
At the 17^rd level and thereafter, Your charm is too enthralling that you can mimic effect of charm person or enthrall after one action preparation. The saving throw is against 8+ performance (acting) or persuasion modifiers. A creature who succeeds her saving throw is immune to the charmer for 24 hours.

I Like QuickLeaf's awareness as 9th level ability (and it will boost all my abilities above) !

But my archetype has no real mobility perk... Quick MENTAL action then ? Tumble, X and Y from QL previous post should be removed then.

It is hard to get an archeype only based on social interaction. Check my swashbuckler/muskeeter archetype or Quickleaf's threads!

 

[peterka99]

a newer version, with features from this page and from Amechra from http://www.giantitp.com/forums/show...guish-Archetype-PEACH&p=18622521#post18622521


Rogue Archetype- Scroundrel
[SBLOCK]
Fast Talk
At the 3th level and thereafter ,When engaging an enemy who can hear and understand you, you may attempt to fast talk. You may only fast talk one creature each round. Make a Charisma (Deception or Persuasion) check, opposed by their Insight wisdom check. If you succeed, the creature cannot take reactions or bonus actions until the end of its next turn as it is so befuddled by your words.

Mocker
Also at 3rd level learn the Vicious Mockery cantrip; your spellcasting ability is Charisma.

Scoundrel's Cunning
At 9th level, you may use your cunning action to use Vicious Mockery as the first action of the round, so long as you aren't surprised. This occurs completely outside of the normal turn sequence.

Knife-Flower Willow
At 13th level, if a creature who has disadvantage on their attack roll misses you, the next attack you make against them before the end of your next turn may be a Sneak Attack even if you don't have advantage on your attack roll.

Taunting
At 17th level, Any creature failing its saving throw is compelled to perform a dash action to get within 5’ of you (without disengaging) and attack you with disadvantage for the next minute. The psychic damage is continuous. At the start of every subsequent round, a new saving throw can be made to end the spell effects. [/SBLOCK]