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<blockquote data-quote="Rhenny" data-source="post: 6255283" data-attributes="member: 18333">I used to like giving each player control over every situation by allowing him or her to roll to perceive depending on if the PC is in position (through movement or marching order) to have a chance to see/hear a hidden foe or a trap.&nbsp; &nbsp; But after thinking about Passive Perception for a while I think there is definitely merrit to comparing 1 foe roll to the passive perception scores of each of the party memebers especially when it comes to determining surprise.Player rolls example:&nbsp; the group is walking past a stack of boxes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The fighter is leading them, his shield is glowing with divine light provided by the party cleric.&nbsp;&nbsp; As soon as the fighter steps within 10' of the boxes he makes his wisdom(perception) check vs. predetermined DC 15 (or whatever...it could even be 10+proficiency+attribute bonus+expertise if the hidden creature has NPC class).&nbsp; Now...here's the problem.&nbsp;&nbsp; What if&nbsp; 8 creatures are hiding, and the fighter fails the perception check?&nbsp; &nbsp; That would probably allow all 8 of the creatures to pounce on the fighter and rip him to shreds.&nbsp;&nbsp; When would the others in the group get to perceive/act?&nbsp;&nbsp; Would we roll intiative after 1 creature attacks?&nbsp;&nbsp; Or would we let all 8 attack before rolling initiative?&nbsp; &nbsp; How does surprise work if the others don't make wisdom (perception checks)? Do we make all of the others roll a wisdome (perception check)?&nbsp; Are the others automatically surprised?&nbsp; Is only the fighter surprised and everyone rolls for initiative to see who acts first (even the ones that didn't make a perception check)?Considering these quesitons....maybe the passive roll is best.&nbsp; &nbsp; With one roll, it will be much easier to determine who is surprised and who isn't.&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll for foes -- then see if fighter has high enough passive perception....then check against each of the others in the party.&nbsp; &nbsp; Have the group roll for initiative and begin the combat letting those who are not surprised act in the first round.&nbsp;&nbsp; This may be the most efficient way to do it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rhenny, post: 6255283, member: 18333"] I used to like giving each player control over every situation by allowing him or her to roll to perceive depending on if the PC is in position (through movement or marching order) to have a chance to see/hear a hidden foe or a trap. But after thinking about Passive Perception for a while I think there is definitely merrit to comparing 1 foe roll to the passive perception scores of each of the party memebers especially when it comes to determining surprise. Player rolls example: the group is walking past a stack of boxes. The fighter is leading them, his shield is glowing with divine light provided by the party cleric. As soon as the fighter steps within 10' of the boxes he makes his wisdom(perception) check vs. predetermined DC 15 (or whatever...it could even be 10+proficiency+attribute bonus+expertise if the hidden creature has NPC class). Now...here's the problem. What if 8 creatures are hiding, and the fighter fails the perception check? That would probably allow all 8 of the creatures to pounce on the fighter and rip him to shreds. When would the others in the group get to perceive/act? Would we roll intiative after 1 creature attacks? Or would we let all 8 attack before rolling initiative? How does surprise work if the others don't make wisdom (perception checks)? Do we make all of the others roll a wisdome (perception check)? Are the others automatically surprised? Is only the fighter surprised and everyone rolls for initiative to see who acts first (even the ones that didn't make a perception check)? Considering these quesitons....maybe the passive roll is best. With one roll, it will be much easier to determine who is surprised and who isn't. Roll for foes -- then see if fighter has high enough passive perception....then check against each of the others in the party. Have the group roll for initiative and begin the combat letting those who are not surprised act in the first round. This may be the most efficient way to do it. [/QUOTE]

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