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<blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 495067" data-attributes="member: 743">Thanks!Well, assuming you don't allow items which give plusses to the skill (which I suggest somewhere in my stuff, but maybe not the stufff that reached this page), you are fairly limited by your skill. At 5th level you could have +11, average would allow +5 armor, but it would only be for 1/2 hour. If you want it for longer than that, you'd have to go down in plusses. At that level, all it does is free up a Mage Armor slot.At higher levels, the bonus does get higher. But, even taking 20, my Mana Knight can only reach +8 armor bonus for about 4 hours. He quickly found he was better off with a Mithral Buckler and Armored Robes (coupled with GMW from the cleric.)Nope.I have only looked at it from the perspective of splat books, core rules, and a few other books I use (none of which allow class skill via a feat. If you allow that feat, by all means increase the prereqs by adding a couple of required ranks.Of course, even without the feat, you can reach the class by 5th level (one level of sorcerer, a high int, and four levels of fighter will do it for you). I haven't been able to playtest the lower levels of the class though, so I don't know if they are balanced well.On its own the skill isn't meant to allow dealing a lot of damage. Perhaps a feat that allowed dropping your tohit roll to add extra damage? In the &quot;More Mana Stuff&quot; thread there's a spellcasting prestige class that has bolts which scale up.If you do have someone play one of these, please let me know the results, as I'm very interested!Thanks!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James McMurray, post: 495067, member: 743"] Thanks! Well, assuming you don't allow items which give plusses to the skill (which I suggest somewhere in my stuff, but maybe not the stufff that reached this page), you are fairly limited by your skill. At 5th level you could have +11, average would allow +5 armor, but it would only be for 1/2 hour. If you want it for longer than that, you'd have to go down in plusses. At that level, all it does is free up a Mage Armor slot. At higher levels, the bonus does get higher. But, even taking 20, my Mana Knight can only reach +8 armor bonus for about 4 hours. He quickly found he was better off with a Mithral Buckler and Armored Robes (coupled with GMW from the cleric.) Nope. I have only looked at it from the perspective of splat books, core rules, and a few other books I use (none of which allow class skill via a feat. If you allow that feat, by all means increase the prereqs by adding a couple of required ranks. Of course, even without the feat, you can reach the class by 5th level (one level of sorcerer, a high int, and four levels of fighter will do it for you). I haven't been able to playtest the lower levels of the class though, so I don't know if they are balanced well. On its own the skill isn't meant to allow dealing a lot of damage. Perhaps a feat that allowed dropping your tohit roll to add extra damage? In the "More Mana Stuff" thread there's a spellcasting prestige class that has bolts which scale up. If you do have someone play one of these, please let me know the results, as I'm very interested! Thanks! [/QUOTE]

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