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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TKDB" data-source="post: 5872833" data-attributes="member: 6690697">This is very similar to a Fireball with the Explosive Spell metamagic and the same effective spell level, so I'm going to use that as a point of comparison. The Explosive Fireball deals far more damage (not only does it deal more dice of damage on the main spell at any level before 20, it automatically adds additional damage to creatures that are thrown even if they don't hit an object), doesn't give targets a second save to avoid falling prone, and affects creatures of any size. The advantages of this spell are that the save DC is higher (since it's actually a level 5 spell rather than a level 3 with +2 metamagic), it's force instead of fire (so it's more reliable against incorporeal foes and pretty much never subject to resistances/immunities), and it isn't reliant on metamagic (so you don't need to spend a feat and a sorcerer won't have to worry about increasing the casting time or using a method of quickening metamagic). Overall, I'm inclined to say that the strengths of the Explosive Fireball relative to this spell outweigh the weaknesses, so this one needs a boost. At the very least, it should knockback creatures of all sizes and not have a second save to avoid falling prone. The damage could also use a boost. If you're worried about keeping it from being strictly better than Cone of Cold (frankly, I wouldn't -- Cone of Cold isn't that good of a spell to begin with, and there are already better level 5 blast spells in official material, such as Cacaphonic Blast and Cyclonic Blast), make it 1d4 damage per level to a max of 15d4 rather than 1d6/2 lvls, max 10d6. That makes the damage more respectable while still keeping it below Cone of Cold to compensate for the added effect (not to mention better area and damage type).I will reiterate that giving the target multiple saves is generally bad (for instance, note that Phantasmal Killer is two whole spell levels lower than the next lowest level true save-or-die) but other than that this seems ok. I'd be pretty reluctant to use it with the two saves, but if the knocking prone was tied into the knockback with the first failed save this would be quite reasonable for a 6th-level spell slot.This is almost directly comparable to an Explosive Cone of Cold, and much like the Fireball comparison earlier I'd definitely say that the Cone of Cold is better. The Explosive Cone stands to knock creatures back farther (it shoves them to the edge of the spell's area), deals additional damage on a failed save, and doesn't give a second save to avoid falling prone. At the very least, take away the second save. Also, by 7th level spells you can start letting the damage scale up to 20d6 (see Delayed Blast Fireball).Seems fine to me for an 8th-level spell. Though frankly, even for a blaster caster, I'm generally not looking at blasting spells for those slots unless it's a lower-level spell with loads of metamagic on it, so my judgment may be a little fuzzy.This spell could probably use a bit more oomph. At this level, you're competing with really high-power stuff -- Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster, Power Word Kill, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop...to say nothing of really stinky cheese Shapechange. And that's just in core!Meteor Swarm itself is pretty meh -- even if you make all four ranged touch attacks (admittedly not too difficult, but even if you only miss on a nat 1, odds are one in five castings won't pull it off -- point being, it's not exactly reliable) you're looking at a little over 100 total damage on average to the primary target, and less to secondary targets in the blast area. Sounds like a lot, but compared to what a good martial character can dish out with a full attack at that level (or even a few levels earlier), that's a pretty underwhelming use of a precious 9th-level spell slot. If you tacked that knockback effect onto Meteor Swarm as-written and changed it to force, I wouldn't call it overpowered at all.At least not by comparison to what arcane casters are already capable of, that is. If you're intentionally trying to tone casters down a bit (quite an understandable desire), then don't worry too much about bringing these spells "up to par" with existing stuff.</blockquote>

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