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<blockquote data-quote="Beholder Bob" data-source="post: 1188236" data-attributes="member: 12866">1st the name includes the word agony, but other then damage, none of these spells are painful nor inconvienent.&nbsp; A group of spells that just do damage add little in flavor, and a big jump up these spells have is that they do not list the damage type (bypassing immunities to various damage types).&nbsp; Add pain &amp; or inconvienence - hard time moving, loss of STR or DEX, make 1/2 of dmg subdual perhaps?2nd magic missile is outer limits 1st level spell, the absolute upper edge, and from a school known for its ability to dmg folks.&nbsp; Also, since it has no type, it can get creatures immune to or protected from force/mg missile.&nbsp; Do not use it as a base for your spell.&nbsp; Your 2nd lv does better then Acid Arrow (no duration, which is both good and bad, and while flame sphere can do more, it takes caster effort each round and save negates).&nbsp; Your 3rd lv does better then lightning (vs a single foe, but w non-type dmg).&nbsp; These need to do much less damage, you are exceeding the limits.3rd damage spells (such as burning hands) were taken out of alteration in 3.5.&nbsp; Alteration spells did too much already.&nbsp; Perhaps, unless you are stuck on doing dmg:1st: does 1 subdual/r (save negate), and suffer -1 to hit &amp; will saves.2nd: does d2 subdual/r (save negate), and suffer as above plus mv 1/23rd: does d4 subdual/r (&quot; &quot;), and suffer &quot; and d3 dex &amp; str for duration only4th: does d6, 1/2 is subdual/r (&quot; &quot;), and suffer &quot; and d6 dex &amp; str &quot;Anyways, that is my gut reaction (I know, what did I eat?).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Beholder Bob, post: 1188236, member: 12866"] 1st the name includes the word agony, but other then damage, none of these spells are painful nor inconvienent. A group of spells that just do damage add little in flavor, and a big jump up these spells have is that they do not list the damage type (bypassing immunities to various damage types). Add pain & or inconvienence - hard time moving, loss of STR or DEX, make 1/2 of dmg subdual perhaps? 2nd magic missile is outer limits 1st level spell, the absolute upper edge, and from a school known for its ability to dmg folks. Also, since it has no type, it can get creatures immune to or protected from force/mg missile. Do not use it as a base for your spell. Your 2nd lv does better then Acid Arrow (no duration, which is both good and bad, and while flame sphere can do more, it takes caster effort each round and save negates). Your 3rd lv does better then lightning (vs a single foe, but w non-type dmg). These need to do much less damage, you are exceeding the limits. 3rd damage spells (such as burning hands) were taken out of alteration in 3.5. Alteration spells did too much already. Perhaps, unless you are stuck on doing dmg: 1st: does 1 subdual/r (save negate), and suffer -1 to hit & will saves. 2nd: does d2 subdual/r (save negate), and suffer as above plus mv 1/2 3rd: does d4 subdual/r (" "), and suffer " and d3 dex & str for duration only 4th: does d6, 1/2 is subdual/r (" "), and suffer " and d6 dex & str " Anyways, that is my gut reaction (I know, what did I eat?). [/QUOTE]

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