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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 1434886" data-attributes="member: 10397">Your right about the incorporeal thing...they should be entirely immune since gravity has no effect on them.  As far as the save thing...I dont understand why people see some saves as more powerful than others. They are each easier or harder for some classes than others, but as near as I can tell it all balances out. With Reflex, you have Evasion..but only 2 classes have evasion..although their are items. Also, only 4 classes (previously 3) have good Reflex saves. 7 classes have good Fort saves, and some creatures are immune to most things requiring fort saves. And, the classes with the good fort saves are also the ones with the higher HPS. To me it does. When I first started DnD I was fascinated by the concept of the schools of magic..and how they were divided according to type of magical effect, and how they operate. Ok first here we go again with the assumption that PCS are always doing things just to increase their power.  next, there are already damaging spells in schools other than evocation3rd...dont you think a specialist wizard iwithin the reality of the game would try to create spells for his school that do things it doesnt currently do, in its own way? It makes sense. well I think it would be pretty hard to "lawyer" Fireball into Enchantment, or Silent Image into Abjuration.  Part of the problem is, I dont think they should have done away with multi school spells, as many effects are very hard to classify to a single school. I'm sorry but this is absurd. Polar ray deals 25 dice of damage. Disientegrate deals up to 40 dice of damage, and if you are reduced to 0 you cant be braught back except by a 9th level spell..and it can be used to entirely obilterate nonliving matter.  Theres no real comparison there. then why do the DMG guidlines give pretty much every spell level a higher damage cap for single target spells that for multi target ones? I'm not. I'm pitching in game logic. A spell that alters things is Transmutation whatever the final effect of that alteration may be. Evocations dont change things, they make them. They create energy. Gravity Warp could possibly be Evocation, but Vacuum Burst doesnt fit, accept that it deals damage.  I dont think thease particular rules are arbitray and do no good..but then they arent really rules either. Theres no rule that says every damaging spell most be Evocation (indeed there are ones that are not, and many more than werent until recently). Nor is there a rule that says every damage spell must have a Reflex save for half (again, there are a number of such spells that dont).  I am not accussing you personaly of anything, and I dont think anyone else was either. I am simply discussing your statements and my agreement or disagreement with them. Your partialy right about this. In the end I'd say there equal..but only when the comments are. Many people will simply stop by and post and say "its overpowered" and not really give you much more. You havent done that, but it is a common practice. And that isnt worth much.  Comments that dont at least acknowledge the concept as well as the mechanical execution arent worth a lot to me either (again not saying your in that catagory). This is very true (in fact there is still One Most Powerful Class as things stand now as far as I'm concerned but I digress).  But some times people get so afraid of imbalance, they immediately jump on anything that is (1 somewhat new or unique, nothing in the PH like it either at all or at its level or (2 seems to be at all strong...as in, not weaker than everything in the PH.  Thats why some of us get a little touchy some times...we've come to expect negativity. I acknowledge and apologize for this in my case. But after a while it gets hard to help.</blockquote>

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