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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9421937" data-attributes="member: 6932123">Yeah, See Invisibility in conjunction with hiding making use of the Invisible condition starts getting weird.When See Invisibility was just the ability to see through the illusion that the Invisibility spell caused, it made sense. (And also the ethereal plane, but that's not relevant here.)Now that hiding grants the condition of Invisibility, if a rogue runs behind a tree (three-quarters cover) and hides, can the person with See Invisibility still see him? Though he's supposed to be out of line of sight as well, so probably not immediately, but what about when he moves?Or put another way, does See Invisible (never mind True Seeing) functionally negate stealth? Is it fundamentally impossible to sneak past someone with See Invisible?This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does change the thought process on handling stealth. There are some creatures that you expect players shouldn't be able to sneak past, and this is a fairly simple way to ensure that. Though it makes you wonder why the city guard don't all wear helmets with a See Invisible enchantment. (Maybe they do? Or at least the upper ranks.)And since some mentioned dragons earlier in the thread, a few checks darkvision and blindsight are pretty typical of most dragons, and mesh with some clarifications/house rules I'd put in:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If you end your turn in line of sight of an enemy creature, and you are not in an area that in some way hinders perception (dim light, darkness, light or heavy obscurement, or some sort of cover), then you lose the Invisible condition granted by hiding. If the creature has some way of overcoming the source of concealment (darkvision, Devil's Sight, blindsense, etc), then that concealment doesn't count for the purpose of remaining hidden. See Invisible and True Seeing always overcome the Invisible condition unless you end your turn behind total cover.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If a creature's passive perception matches or beats your Stealth check, the creature is alerted to the fact that someone is there, and may choose to make a Search check to find you. (Option?: You do not get advantage on attacks against an alerted creature, although the creature still has disadvantage when attempting to attack you.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">You may drop the Invisible condition granted by Hiding as a free action.</li> </ol>Not sure whether See Invisible and/or True Seeing should counter the Invisible status if you are at any time not behind total cover. I could see it going either way.And yes, the concealment options are less restrictive than the original conditions needed to hide in the first place.Well, I'm sure plenty of people will come up with their own ways of handling the ambiguities of the new stealth rules.</blockquote>

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