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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 9422019" data-attributes="member: 6779196">No, before I was saying that the invisible condition didn’t actually make the character impossible to see, it just defined what benefits they would receive from being unseen (and also granted them advantage on initiative rolls even if they were seen). We now know that is not the case. The invisible condition does make the character impossible to see. Well, either that or the invisibility spell doesn’t make the character impossible to see, which is equally absurd.Right, but the conditions that end this functional invisibility are listed as1. You make too much noise2. You make an attack roll3. You cast a spell with a verbal component (arguably just a clarification of 1)4. An enemy finds youSince the invisible condition does in fact make you impossible to see, salsa dancing in front of an enemy does not satisfy condition 4. It might satisfy condition 1, if you don’t dance quietly enough, hence the listed perception check required to find you. But that requires the enemy to spend a whole action looking for you on its own turn. You are otherwise free to salsa dance to your heart’s content. If this is not the intended function of the rule, then the rule should not be written this way.The name of the condition isn’t the problem. The fact that the condition prevents creatures from finding you by looking at you with their open, functioning eyeballs is the problem, because that’s not how sneaking works.A lot of people, including myself, were making these very claims about it at the time. If you don’t believe me I will go dig up quotes.Because they wanted you to have to run for cover after making the attack.Because they didn’t want the rogue to be able to use this feature to extend the duration of an invisibility spell that was cast on them.Then they shouldn’t have written it that way.No. They should have had two different conditions that worked differently. Because sneaking should not work the same as magical invisibility. Sneaking should stop working when someone looks at you with their open, functioning eyeballs and magical invisibility should not.No, stealth making you unable to be seen is the problem. Mundane stealth shouldn’t do that.</blockquote>

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