NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9423900" data-attributes="member: 6932123">I'm starting to think you're trolling at this point.Let's try an analogy.  I'm going to create a condition called "Hits Better", which gives you a +1 to hit and a +1 to damage. There are two ways to get this condition:1) Get a magic weapon with a +1 modifier.2) Raise your Str by 2 points.In both cases you now have +1 to hit, and +1 to damage rolls. However, despite the fact that they both give the condition, there are implications about each which are different. The two options give the same condition, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing, or that they manifest in the game in the same way.For example, the boost to Str means you keep the condition even when you change weapons. The magic weapon, on the other hand, can be given to a friend to allow him to gain the buff, while the Str increase cannot be transferred that way.An assertion that you could give your Str to another party member, or that having one magic weapon means all your weapons are magic, would not make any sense.Let's try another analogy using another condition. You can Restrain someone by tying him up with rope, or by trapping him in the Web spell. Your argument translates to the assertion that if he is Restrained, he must necessarily be trapped in a web, because that's what the Web spell does, and that you can only tie him up if you wrap him in webbing. To use rope to restrain him must therefore mean that the Web spell doesn't work, or that the Web spell ties people up with ropes, because there's no way for the Restrained condition to be created in different ways.You seem dead set on saying that the condition and the spell are exactly the same thing, and that if the condition does not grant an effect, neither does the spell, or vice versa. This insistence seems to be an obstinate refusal to acknowledge the basic understanding that the condition and the thing that grants the condition do not have to be the same thing.In the case of invisibility, the Invisible spell grants the Invisible condition by making you invisible, One Ring-style. Hiding grants you the Invisibility condition, but not via One Ring-style invisibility. These two statements do not conflict. The Invisibility condition does not grant One Ring-style invisibility; only the spell does that. The fact that hiding does not grant One Ring-style invisibility, despite granting the Invisible condition, does not in any way imply that the Invisibility spell does not grant One Ring-style invisibility.</blockquote>

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