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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9424266" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, per the definition put forth that invisible means &quot;impossible to see&quot; neither of those are invisible. Nice swerve from my &quot;no living creature&quot; to &quot;infrared light&quot; though. Kind of helps prove my point when you don't even attempt to find a creature that is impossible to see.And listening and hearing are defined differently. Doesn't mean the rules can't lump them into the same thing since they are close enough.Except multiple people have offered extremely common sense interpretations, despite your claim that there is &quot;no way&quot; to interpret it any differently.Sure it isn't immune. But did a fighter ever once find a line of people standing around the entire globe? Have you ever stuffed an entire army into 8 spaces, and had them all attempt to grapple one character? Looking at Mirror Sphere, I don't see how dealing yourself psychic damage can cause you to eat yourself unless you start activating other weird abilities. But even then... did it ever actually happen at the table? Do ANY of these bizarre what-ifs actually happen at any actual table during natural play? Or do they all have to be engineered to occur?And yet, for not being difficult to fix, people are losing their minds and declaring the ruleset untenable, a travesty of design that could not possibly have happened if anyone put any effort into the rules!!And it took me all of 30 seconds to understand the intent, and see that it works perfectly fine, as long as you approach playing the game in good faith, and not via whatever this thread is that insists that every word must have one, and only one, possible definition and interpretation and it must be ridiculous.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9424266, member: 6801228"] So, per the definition put forth that invisible means "impossible to see" neither of those are invisible. Nice swerve from my "no living creature" to "infrared light" though. Kind of helps prove my point when you don't even attempt to find a creature that is impossible to see. And listening and hearing are defined differently. Doesn't mean the rules can't lump them into the same thing since they are close enough. Except multiple people have offered extremely common sense interpretations, despite your claim that there is "no way" to interpret it any differently. Sure it isn't immune. But did a fighter ever once find a line of people standing around the entire globe? Have you ever stuffed an entire army into 8 spaces, and had them all attempt to grapple one character? Looking at Mirror Sphere, I don't see how dealing yourself psychic damage can cause you to eat yourself unless you start activating other weird abilities. But even then... did it ever actually happen at the table? Do ANY of these bizarre what-ifs actually happen at any actual table during natural play? Or do they all have to be engineered to occur? And yet, for not being difficult to fix, people are losing their minds and declaring the ruleset untenable, a travesty of design that could not possibly have happened if anyone put any effort into the rules!! And it took me all of 30 seconds to understand the intent, and see that it works perfectly fine, as long as you approach playing the game in good faith, and not via whatever this thread is that insists that every word must have one, and only one, possible definition and interpretation and it must be ridiculous. [/QUOTE]

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