Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9424378" data-attributes="member: 6801228">No, the intent is clear. These rules are not meant for a PC to stand in an empty room, and roll stealth twenty-five times until they get over a 15 and then stroll out of the room, completely invisible to everyone in the entire city. Firstly, the rules of the game do not allow the PC to declare a check, the DM determines when a check is warranted due to uncertainty in the situation. Additionally, the game has NEVER really supported &quot;just keep re-rolling until you succeed&quot; So that scenario is not the intent of the rules. What about if you are in the woods, and you hide behind a bush, and sneak up to a bandit camp? Well, no player, ever, without specifically trying to make a point about this thread in particular, would ever say &quot;okay, I want to step out of the bush, and disco dance in front of the scout, since I'm invisible and the scout can't see me&quot;. No one would think that is a reasonable action, if they were not insisting that that is exactly how they interpret these rules. Everyone agrees that is absurd. The reason that the rules do not say that breaking cover doesn't break the condition granted from hiding, is because that was how things used to work, which meant that if a character run from the bush to a tree, then the rules technically meant they were automatically spotted. Also, it meant that the player couldn't say &quot;I wait until he turns around, then rush out and stab him&quot; because the second they moved from their cover, they lost all benefits of being hidden. Now, they can do this clearly obvious thing that hiding should allow them to do.So, when we stop saying &quot;well, what is actually written allows...&quot; and instead look at &quot;what would a player, in good faith, attempt to do?&quot; then the rules intent is crystal clear, and these rules work. They actually work really well. Better than the old rules. The designers just made the stupid decision to only consider good faith play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9424378, member: 6801228"] No, the intent is clear. These rules are not meant for a PC to stand in an empty room, and roll stealth twenty-five times until they get over a 15 and then stroll out of the room, completely invisible to everyone in the entire city. Firstly, the rules of the game do not allow the PC to declare a check, the DM determines when a check is warranted due to uncertainty in the situation. Additionally, the game has NEVER really supported "just keep re-rolling until you succeed" So that scenario is not the intent of the rules. What about if you are in the woods, and you hide behind a bush, and sneak up to a bandit camp? Well, no player, ever, without specifically trying to make a point about this thread in particular, would ever say "okay, I want to step out of the bush, and disco dance in front of the scout, since I'm invisible and the scout can't see me". [B][U]No one[/U][/B] would think that is a reasonable action, if they were not insisting that that is exactly how they interpret these rules. Everyone agrees that is absurd. The reason that the rules do not say that breaking cover doesn't break the condition granted from hiding, is because that was how things used to work, which meant that if a character run from the bush to a tree, then the rules technically meant they were automatically spotted. Also, it meant that the player couldn't say "I wait until he turns around, then rush out and stab him" because the second they moved from their cover, they lost all benefits of being hidden. Now, they can do this clearly obvious thing that hiding should allow them to do. So, when we stop saying "well, what is actually written allows..." and instead look at "what would a player, in good faith, attempt to do?" then the rules intent is crystal clear, and these rules work. They actually work really well. Better than the old rules. The designers just made the stupid decision to only consider good faith play. [/QUOTE]

Verification