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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 9426659" data-attributes="member: 6802765">It's possible that there is indeed text located elsewhere in the book that indicates that successfully hiding makes one unheard. Indeed, that was more-or-less the case with the 2014 rules, where the text defining being hidden as "unseen and unheard" was in the combat chapter.If so, that would be an improvement over the rules we've seen that seem to me to be problematic under every interpretation suggested so far. But it would still be a giant step backwards from the 2014 rules, as they would have somehow managed to not solve one of primary issues with the 2014 rules (that they were scattered throughout the book) while introducing new issues such as making hiding binary (which is going to be unacceptably ridiculous for some fraction of the playerbase), making hiding depend on the definition of an "enemy" (the same), conflating hiding with magical invisibility (saving at most a paragraph of space at the cost of either widespread confusion or radically changing magical invisibility and/or its counters), and putting hiding out of the reach of low level parties (even if they kept the 2014 group check rules, it's going to be very difficult for a typical low level party to hit DC 15, unless they're permitted to reroll).The stealth rules in general were one of the pain points in the 2014 rules (as evidenced by the number and length of threads on related topics in the last decade). That they not only failed to fix that issue but instead made it actively worse makes me despair for the rest of the new rules.</blockquote>

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