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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 9429906" data-attributes="member: 6802765">I'm not saying that the 2024 rules require two checks. I'm saying that becoming or remaining unheard (i.e. preventing creatures from locating you by sound) doesn't appear to be supported in the 2024 rules at all.I agree that it's supposed to be, as indicated by the description of the Stealth skill. But from the general Hiding rules excerpted in the post quoted below, we know that "sneaking past a guardian" is an application of hiding, and that when trying to hide one takes the Hide action. From the text of the Hide action quoted in the OP we know that its benefit is providing the Invisible condition. But from the text of the Invisible condition quoted in the OP we know that it has nothing at all to do with sound--it's concerned only with vision....How then to resolve the apparent contradiction between what the rules say they are supposed to do, and the lack of mechanics to actually do so? One option is to infer that the Invisible condition makes one unheard, but the thread can't even agree on whether or not the Invisible condition can make one unseen without a separate source of cover or obscurement, so I highly doubt we'd find a consensus on whether the condition instead/additionally makes one unheard. Another option would be to infer that successfully taking the Hide action makes one unheard based on its requirement that one stay quiet, but, as previously explained, it's circular if the requirement to stay quiet in order to maintain the benefits of the Hide action was intended to be met by successfully taking the Hide action. The default ability check mechanics (roll against a DC set by the DM) are tempting, but (as [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER] discusses above) the hiding rules state that attempts to hide are instead resolved via the Hide action. Specific beats general, so it arguably would require a houserule to rely on the default resolution mechanic when another one has been specified for the 2024 rules.I'm sure many people will use such a houserule--indeed, I've houseruled the 2014 stealth rules to make them work for me. The issue is that becoming or remaining unheard so that enemies can't locate you by sound is such a basic concept that if the 2024 rules indeed do not cover it, that's either a huge oversight if unintentional or a massive change if deliberate.</blockquote>

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