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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9430022" data-attributes="member: 6932123">Taking a little side trip...Star Wars: Millennium Falcon on the Death StarHan, Luke, and the rest used Hide after the Falcon was captured by the Death Star. Using smuggling compartments likely gave them advantage, since those are designed to hide things.The stormtroopers that boarded to Search the ship failed their Perception checks, and didn't find them.Being hidden (Invisible) gave them advantage when they jumped the stormtroopers, with both initiative and the attack.They then had a couple stormtrooper suits. Han and Luke changed into them. In this case, I'd want to call it a Disguise action rather than a Hide action, but it still gives them the Invisible condition.They can be seen, but they don't lose the Invisible condition. Basically, they are not seen as a threat or outsider or prisoner or whatever else would classify them as an "enemy" to the stormtroopers, so they can move freely as long as they don't do anything to cause someone to re-evaluate their Perception of the intruders.They lose the Invisible condition when they shoot the guards in the prison center. But, even ignoring that, if we proceed as if that hadn't happened, they lose it when Han fails a Deception check against the officer checking in on the prison room. That failure would have counted as an enemy finding them, ending the Invisible condition. They weren't "seen" (though that's more due to the setting which allows for a communicator system), and the supervisor wasn't actively Searching for them, but it still counts as "finding" them.--All fine as an illustration of the use of the Invisible condition for different types of Hiding. However I think it also helps me define "find":Find: Identifying a creature as an enemy or target.In particular, why does being seen act as finding a hidden person so often? Well, in combat, a person you don't know wearing armor and carrying a weapon pretty much instantly classifies them as an enemy, so seeing someone is sufficient for "finding". For a guard patrolling a warehouse, pretty much any person who isn't another guard isn't supposed to be there, so automatically gets classified as an enemy. At a party, the waiter is supposed to be there, and gets overlooked until someone notices the dagger he's got tucked in his belt, at which point he is clearly dangerous, and thus an enemy.Or in the case of Han trying to bluff his way through the attention of some prison supervisor, failing the Deception check lost him the illusion of being a legitimate guard, and thus he was re-classified as an enemy.For targets, bandits searching a house and finding children hiding in the closet doesn't classify them as enemies, but as targets — witnesses or hostages or prisoners or whatever. The bandits were doing a broad search to find anything useful to them, and the children could count as that. Identifying legitimate "targets" fulfills the concept of "finding" a hidden creature.On the other side, though, if a guard is searching for an intruder and finds a cat, the druid wasn't "found". It wasn't the target being searched for, and wasn't identified as the druid in animal form. It could be that the Perception check made by the guard allowed him to see the cat, but just visual line-of-sight wasn't sufficient to "find" the target because the guard failed to properly identify her.</blockquote>

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