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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9430526" data-attributes="member: 6932123">My argument is that the Stealth check to Hide satisfies the incidental noise requirement for remaining hidden, but not the voluntary actions of the player/character.Incidental noise is the footsteps of you walking, the clanking of your armor, the jostling of your backpack, your breathing, etc — things that are going to be there no matter what. The Stealth check is getting all that to an acceptably low level.On the other hand, just like Hiding does not mean that casting spells will always be done quietly and not be heard, hiding does not mean that if you speak loudly, or beat a drum, or deliberately drop your backpack full of healing potions, or whatever other source of noise you may choose to make, is automatically below the noise threshold.Basically, the &quot;making noise&quot; part that causes you to lose the Invisible condition is something the player has agency over. It's not incidental background stuff.If you accidentally knock a vase off a table, you manage to catch it before it shatters on the floor. (Maybe a little dramatic flair, but not mechanically significant.) If you deliberately drop it, it will make enough noise to end the Invisible condition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 9430526, member: 6932123"] My argument is that the Stealth check to Hide satisfies the incidental noise requirement for remaining hidden, but not the voluntary actions of the player/character. Incidental noise is the footsteps of you walking, the clanking of your armor, the jostling of your backpack, your breathing, etc — things that are going to be there no matter what. The Stealth check is getting all that to an acceptably low level. On the other hand, just like Hiding does not mean that casting spells will always be done quietly and not be heard, hiding does not mean that if you speak loudly, or beat a drum, or deliberately drop your backpack full of healing potions, or whatever other source of noise you may choose to make, is automatically below the noise threshold. Basically, the "making noise" part that causes you to lose the Invisible condition is something the player has agency over. It's not incidental background stuff. If you accidentally knock a vase off a table, you manage to catch it before it shatters on the floor. (Maybe a little dramatic flair, but not mechanically significant.) If you deliberately drop it, it will make enough noise to end the Invisible condition. [/QUOTE]

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