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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 9437896" data-attributes="member: 6802765">I can't agree that there's nothing to discuss other than the designer's high-level goals for stealth. An essential part of analyzing and discussing new rules is examining how the designers implemented their intent.Neither. If anyone has new information from the PHB or designer comments to contribute, or a new textual analysis that has been overlooked so far, great! But my purpose in this thread is analyzing and discussing the new rules in order to evaluate how useful they are. Hearing how different community members plan to run those rules at their tables is interesting and tangentially relevant to evaluating the new rules' utility (based on how much posters are planning to add or change), but I'm not trying to solicit advice. And at a conceptual level, I don't think the rules are insufficiently specific--indeed, based on what we've seen so far I think that they're simultaneously over-specific (by relying on a one-size-fits-all Condition) and non-specific (by not addressing aspects of stealth not covered by the Condition).I've not seen the 2024 Help Action, but I think a more apt comparison would be if the explicit benefit of using medicine was providing a "Recuperating" condition, and yet that condition failed to address the full range of things one would expect medicine to be useful for.I agree that if the designers intended to maintain the assumption that characters know the location of any creature in hearing range, then it would be workable to use the Hide action to resolve whether a creature who already has the Invisible condition from the Invisibility spell is heard. It worked in the 2014 rules and it could be made to work in the 2024 rules. But due to the lack of supporting text (and previously mentioned non-intuitive readings it would require) I'm not confident that either of those are intended by the new rules (although I think it's somewhat more likely than not). The revision to the Hide action to revolve around the Invisible condition is a big change, and it's unclear to me from the text how extensive the ramifications from that change are intended to be. That I can't tell from the text itself whether the 2024 changes to stealth are intended to be a (failed) clarification of the existing 2014 rules, or instead an overhaul to mechanically buff (or nerf!) stealth is, in my opinion, a black mark against the 2024 rules that weighs heavily against their usefulness.</blockquote>

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