D&D 4E New Trek = D&D 4E

[Darrin Drader]

I'm seeing a lot of parallels between some fan's reactions to the new Star Trek movie and the way much of the public is feeling about 4E. I freely admit that it took a long time for me to get onboard with it. Somehow I thought it would be appropriate to compare some new quotes that just emerged at Trekmovie.com here since we're really talking about quite a bit of the same thing.

More From Roddenberry: On Trek’s Future After Him & Recasting March 6, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

Last week we ran some quotes from a recently released audio interview with Gene Roddenberry from the 70s where he discussed changes in Trek designs and that he had considered doing his own prequel to The Original Series. In the last week some friends of the site have found other quotes from Star Trek’s creator that showed that he was pretty flexible and open to a future of Trek without him.

Roddenberry on doing Star Trek without Leonard Nimoy
from 1977 letter to fans on the controversy over doing the ‘Phase II’ TV series (aka ‘Star Trek II’) without Leonard Nimoy (who did not want to return to series television), taken from “The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture” by Susan Sackett and Gene Roddenberry.

Do we still want Nimoy-Spock in Star Trek II? Yes, of course. Must we have the Nimoy-Spock combination back no matter what the schedule or terms or cost? Of course not.

Roddenberry on recasting
from 1981 letter to the fans regarding the death of Spock controversy in the upcoming Star Trek II, taken from “Star Trek:Creator - The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry”

Even if Nimoy never plays Spock again, I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest as they say tomorrow’s things to tomorrow’s generations…

Roddenberry on if he would have done Star Trek differently
from 1988 Interview, “The Star Trek Interview Book” by Allan Asherman.

…there are literally hundreds of things I would have done differently with the luxury of hindsight, but I’m quite pleased, given the time, the place, the problems we faced, our own lack of knowledge at that time, because we’ve grown since then, that we did as well as you can reasonably expect. We made lots of mistakes, but obviously we did enough things right that it worked despite the mistakes.

Roddenberry on Trek’s future after him
from 1989 interview, Star Trek Communicator Magazine

I feel that we’ve got such good people in Hollywood, and will in future as well, that I would be happy to have a Star Trek come on in 15 or 20 years where people say, "Now that is good! That makes Roddenberry look like nothing!" And that would please me!

recount of 1990 appearance, taken from “Making of Deep Space Nine” by Judith and Gar Reeves-Stevens

…at a STAR TREK convention in Los Angeles, about a year before his death, Gene Roddenberry spoke to the gathered fans about the future of STAR TREK. He had seen his creation span generations of viewers, he had heard the fans of The Original Series and the Next Generation debate the pros and cons of both, and though there had been no formal talks of a third series at this time, he spoke of how he perceived STAR TREK’s future, after he was gone.

With a charm and sincerity that clearly came from a person who was used to studying human behavior from the perspective of one who looked into the future, Roddenberry said he expected — indeed, he hope — that in the years to come, new generations of fans would look at the new forms of STAR TREK being produced and say, ‘This is the real STAR TREK. Those other people back there at the beginning, they didn’t do it half as well.

I'll be lining up next spring when the new Trek movie comes out and I hope to be somewhere in the middle of running a 4E game by that point.

 

[Saishu_Heiki]

That is a very intriguing point. As a (sometimes rabid) fan of both franchises, it is interesting to read those and try to see the same things in D&D.

Thank you, I now have something to think about.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Very interesting, indeed.

 

[Azgulor]

Very interesting and definitely something to consider.

However, one should not forget that Voyager, Enterprise, and the last Trek movie all came after those statements were made.

I did not want 4e to come out b/c of how much I have invested in 3.x, d20, & OGL stuff. When it was announced, and thus made inevitable, I hoped it would be so good that I would feel like I HAD to switch. That hasn't happened - quite the opposite in fact.

I'm much more optimistic about the new direction of Star Trek than I am regarding the new direction of D&D.

YMMV.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Very interesting and definitely something to consider.

However, one should not forget that Voyager, Enterprise, and the last Trek movie all came after those statements were made.

My favorite Trek will always be Next Gen, but I actually liked Enterprise. Not so much with Voyager.

I did not want 4e to come out b/c of how much I have invested in 3.x, d20, & OGL stuff. When it was announced, and thus made inevitable, I hoped it would be so good that I would feel like I HAD to switch. That hasn't happened - quite the opposite in fact.

I'm much more optimistic about the new direction of Star Trek than I am regarding the new direction of D&D.

YMMV.

I think one of the things this speaks to for me is the slaughtering of sacred cows in D&D. We've generally been pretty appalled by that, yet it is absolutely true that some slaughtered cows make pretty good steak (not to mention tacos. Mmmmm tacos). If you take the game system as a whole, play it, and decide you don't like it, then its easy to chalk it up as being the Voyager of D&D (incidentally, the series numbering would match). On the other hand, if your reason for not liking it is "OMG they changed X! How can they change X????!" then maybe a little more tolerance is in order.

 

[ppaladin123]

My favorite Trek will always be Next Gen, but I actually liked Enterprise. Not so much with Voyager.



I think one of the things this speaks to for me is the slaughtering of sacred cows in D&D. We've generally been pretty appalled by that, yet it is absolutely true that some slaughtered cows make pretty good steak (not to mention tacos. Mmmmm tacos). If you take the game system as a whole, play it, and decide you don't like it, then its easy to chalk it up as being the Voyager of D&D (incidentally, the series numbering would match). On the other hand, if your reason for not liking it is "OMG they changed X! How can they change X????!" then maybe a little more tolerance is in order.

If Keep on the Shadowfell is about intrepid adventurers who cross a "threshold" and then "follow the natural path of human evolution," and become giant newts I am going to cancel
my preorder of the 4e PHB

 

[Azgulor]

My favorite Trek will always be Next Gen, but I actually liked Enterprise. Not so much with Voyager.



I think one of the things this speaks to for me is the slaughtering of sacred cows in D&D. We've generally been pretty appalled by that, yet it is absolutely true that some slaughtered cows make pretty good steak (not to mention tacos. Mmmmm tacos). If you take the game system as a whole, play it, and decide you don't like it, then its easy to chalk it up as being the Voyager of D&D (incidentally, the series numbering would match). On the other hand, if your reason for not liking it is "OMG they changed X! How can they change X????!" then maybe a little more tolerance is in order.

I was a DS9 man, myself, followed by NextGen (very close 2nd), and Enterprise. But I recognize the fact that Enterprise fans are in the minority.

Preserving sacred cows for the cows' sake is of little interest to me. Scrapping the Great Wheel and removing Magic Missle auto-hit aren't even on my radar screen of things I don't like. I've been evaluating information as it becomes available. Much of what I'm seeing seems like a step backwards to me. It might make the game faster or easier to learn, but the mechanics aren't wowing me.

That said, I don't see how an opinion I'm forming from information as it's released requires "more tolerance". For 4e to win me over, given the substantial investment in time and money I have in the current edition, WotC has to clear a bar that's - to their credit since they set it themselves - is pretty damn high. Little has generated any excitement for me although a few things have caused me to stop and consider how they would impact my games.

If I'm a happy 3.x customer, shouldn't WotC have to convince me that 4e will be better? Isn't that part of their job? If they aren't succeeding in covincing me, how does that make me intolerant? (Their marketing efforts failed miserably in this regard so I'm trying to focus just on mechanics at this point.)

One of the methods to developing repeat customers is developing brand loyalty. One could argue that the slaughter of sacred cows on the scale we appear to be seeing would SEEM to run counter to "maintaining the brand".

As with each new Trek endeavor, we won't truly know until we see it. I definitely saw a lot more "wait and see" opinions with each new Trek show/movie than I've seen with 4e, though. Guess we'll see what happens.