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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 3593594" data-attributes="member: 51942">I agree that the DC needn't be much higher than as is.  However, it's not true that a +1 tumble skill is as valuable as a +1 BAB.  skills tend to have far lower impact in battle than bab, and essentially, full-bab progression of the fighter as opposed to the 3/4 bab progression of the rogue is probably worth about the entire skill point difference and then some (judging by the UA variant which allows a fighter to give up his feats in return for sneak attack, I'm not alone in this).  That would mean that 1 bab every four levels is worth 6 skill points per level ;-)  Quite something eh?The above is of course taken completely out of context and not meant to be taken entirely seriously; however 1 rank in tumble _should_ be much worse than 1 bab.  More annoyingly, I think that tumble should reflect the type of opponent.  Tumbling past a stationary ooze should be easier than past a lighting fast... something ;-).  In my games I've used a tumble DC of based on the reflex save bonus of the opponent you're tumbling past instead of a fixed 15.  Although this scales, it scales slowly, and mostly, it means you can easily tumble past slow fighters and not past other fast rogues.Currently I don't use the rule because I think it adds pointless complexity.Finally, it's not true that there's no incentive for the rogue to continue putting ranks into tumble by the way; you have only tumble at half speed through threatened spaces at a DC of 15.  Tumbling through an opponents square is DC 25, and going full speed is worth a +10 on the DC.  And if you move through multiple squares it rises even further....  So your rogue has a bunch of room for character development.  Finally, in my campaign I allow a feat (specifically for rogues and monks) that add's a +1 dodge bonus to your AC (while not flatfooted) up to your armor's max dex for each 5 ranks you have in tumble.  This aids characters not usually very interesting otherwise, namely monks and rogues.  I've still never seen a powerful rogue or monk, let alone an annoyingly powerful monk who is powerful because of this feat, so I'm pretty sure it's OK.</blockquote>

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