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New UA Paladin Sacred Oaths are Oath of Conquest and the Oath of Treachery
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7705442" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I thought a lot of the same at first, but rereading Strength above All… what if we were to read it as a plural “you”? </p><p></p><p>“You [organization] shall rule until a stronger one [organization] arises. Then you [organization] must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.”</p><p></p><p>If anyone should be building armies of followers for a militaristic society, it should be these guys, so having oaths that are a little more society based makes more since. You are the arm of the militaristic society; you enforce the laws others must follow.</p><p></p><p>It seems evil, because history and the literature that followed it, but it is possible to be “good” in that you believe in this organization, and its tenants… hard to make that a PC that plays well with others though. </p><p></p><p>Mechaniclly, I agree that the aura and the 15th level ability are lacking. Most paladins are practically immune to effects by the time you get that charm immunity, and I feel these guys should also make it harder for others to be charmed or frightened. </p><p></p><p>Maybe in addition to causing the enemy to have disadvantage on frighten, you grant allies advantage against being frightened, because you are so terrifying that the enemy looks more manageable by comparison?</p><p></p><p>Both the capstones for these subclasses are amazing. Just, ridiculously good. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Aura of Treachery is interesting, because it makes the Paladin very, very good at fighting by themselves when outnumbered. Seems appropriate for these guys.</p><p></p><p>I do have to agree with [MENTION=53176]Leatherhead[/MENTION] with some of these observations, this is a paladin who is better if they can stealth at least a little, due to illusions and invisiblity. Maybe this is the guy who wants medium armor master and goes dex based, same as wearing plate and using a longsword?</p><p></p><p>Also the fact that getting advantage makes their crits weaker if they used Poison Strike is probably an oversight. My first thought was if they have advantage they get to deal max damage, they could probably add a line about a bonus for critting…. But is it really necessary? Getting the 23 to 40 damage (remember it is 20+lv) and double dice on your actual attack and the smite you are most likely dropping? Plus another 20 if you have Icon of Deceit active. That it a lot of damage to be flinging around, even for a paladin. Too bad it is poison for the Channel Divinity, but they can chose not to use it if fighting something immune. </p><p></p><p></p><p>So, I think so re-flavoring of the Conquest, to make it more super LN instead of LE, and I think they are solid, if not exactly what I want subclasses. </p><p></p><p>I wanted more neutral paladins I guess, people who weren’t super-good, but these guys are a bit more evil empires and lieutenants to dark lords than I really wanted. Not bad, but not what wanted.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7705442, member: 6801228"] I thought a lot of the same at first, but rereading Strength above All… what if we were to read it as a plural “you”? “You [organization] shall rule until a stronger one [organization] arises. Then you [organization] must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.” If anyone should be building armies of followers for a militaristic society, it should be these guys, so having oaths that are a little more society based makes more since. You are the arm of the militaristic society; you enforce the laws others must follow. It seems evil, because history and the literature that followed it, but it is possible to be “good” in that you believe in this organization, and its tenants… hard to make that a PC that plays well with others though. Mechaniclly, I agree that the aura and the 15th level ability are lacking. Most paladins are practically immune to effects by the time you get that charm immunity, and I feel these guys should also make it harder for others to be charmed or frightened. Maybe in addition to causing the enemy to have disadvantage on frighten, you grant allies advantage against being frightened, because you are so terrifying that the enemy looks more manageable by comparison? Both the capstones for these subclasses are amazing. Just, ridiculously good. Aura of Treachery is interesting, because it makes the Paladin very, very good at fighting by themselves when outnumbered. Seems appropriate for these guys. I do have to agree with [MENTION=53176]Leatherhead[/MENTION] with some of these observations, this is a paladin who is better if they can stealth at least a little, due to illusions and invisiblity. Maybe this is the guy who wants medium armor master and goes dex based, same as wearing plate and using a longsword? Also the fact that getting advantage makes their crits weaker if they used Poison Strike is probably an oversight. My first thought was if they have advantage they get to deal max damage, they could probably add a line about a bonus for critting…. But is it really necessary? Getting the 23 to 40 damage (remember it is 20+lv) and double dice on your actual attack and the smite you are most likely dropping? Plus another 20 if you have Icon of Deceit active. That it a lot of damage to be flinging around, even for a paladin. Too bad it is poison for the Channel Divinity, but they can chose not to use it if fighting something immune. So, I think so re-flavoring of the Conquest, to make it more super LN instead of LE, and I think they are solid, if not exactly what I want subclasses. I wanted more neutral paladins I guess, people who weren’t super-good, but these guys are a bit more evil empires and lieutenants to dark lords than I really wanted. Not bad, but not what wanted. [/QUOTE]
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New UA Paladin Sacred Oaths are Oath of Conquest and the Oath of Treachery
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