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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 9231526" data-attributes="member: 12731">You are inventing a straw man here. You are saying "CapnZapp doesn't realize DC 10 checks are easy for anyone as you level up".Stop it.Obviously I am discussing under the assumption we are discussing checks with level-appropriate difficulties. If you never subject your characters to anything more than DC 10, good for you, but that's not what I'm assuming here.(That ends my participation in that particular derail - if you need to keep discussing DC 10 checks, feel free, but don't expect a reply from me)To be clear: a Rogue should not need to invest in Strength and Athletics to match the movement abilities of a Fighter (and vice versa), including movement in three dimensions. Then you regurgitate the old "but realism" objections, which I'll ignore.D&D has chosen to separate Strength and Dexterity as wholly independent "variables", as if you could envision a character with 18 in one but a 3 in the other. This causes a bug in the system where you need to spend an inordinate amount of effort just to not weirdly suck at specific "heroic movement" task.You should not need to spend that many resources (ability points spent towards gaining mostly what you already have: i.e. attack and damage bonuses, taking a skill) to gain so little (plugging the gaps in your movement suite).The solution is simple: if a Rogue wants to heroically move about the battlefield, you stop worrying if this movement happens to include elevation changes, and you just let the player make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The same if a Fighter needs to balance across a tightrope, for example. Demanding that this hero should invest points in Dexterity for which he gains no attack, damage or defense benefit is... insane. The only realistic scenarios are 1) your players just give up and accustom themselves to the weird fact that some martial heroes just can't dance or 2) you make the exceedingly simple and easy change and just let them use Athletics! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Under no circumstances is it reasonable to demand that these martials should double down on both Strength and Dexterity simply to plug the holes in their basic movement repertoire. (Again, if they're looking for other benefits above and beyond battlemap positioning, such as a Rogue wanting to Grapple or a Fighter wanting to make Dex saves, it's fair to ask them to make the investment)</blockquote>

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