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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MortalPlague" data-source="post: 6144789" data-attributes="member: 62721">I disagree.  While the ogre and the yeti and other big brute monsters have their own identity, I don't want them to inherit a 'strong bond' trait from gray renders.  Remember that this bond is enough to keep the render following the character even after the character attacks them.  That's not something I could ever see an ogre doing, which makes it unique and interesting.  It's a behaviour that defies any sort of natural logic, which can create for some pretty memorable encounters.  So that alone is reason enough to include them, in my opinion.Also, there are relatively few brutes who are clearly magical.  Reproducing asexually, the bonding mechanic, potential wizard bodyguard tie-ins?  That's no ogre.Actually, in the article, James Wyatt is saying just that.  He's discarding the lore that there are cities for Umber Hulks.That 4th Edition re-write is exactly why the articles need to address the possibility of a retcon, though.  The titan example is good.  4th Edition made elemental titans, while previous editions had Olympus-like titans.  Which do you use?  If you go with one or the other, you exclude a lot of people.  Maybe someone started gaming with 4th edition and built a campaign around the elemental titans?  Equally likely, someone's 2nd edition game is focused on the godly titans.  You have to weigh the choice pretty carefully.  Maybe you discard one or the other, or maybe you keep both as separate species.  But consulting the audience isn't such a bad idea in that case.I completely agree here.  Discarding something with a huge established tradition 'just because' is silly and reckless.  But examining the four different versions of a monster who have cropped up across four editions is an exercise that needs to be undertaken.I think that's what he was getting at.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Which dragonborn do you keep?  There are many people who started with 4th edition and want to bring their beloved dragonborn PCs forward into 5th.  There are many whose campaigns focused on the old dragonborn.  Which side do you take?  Can you please everyone?</blockquote>

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