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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wrathamon" data-source="post: 5098981" data-attributes="member: 7989">We gave up on it.The rules are so badly organized - I spent several days making a summary document of the rules and still kept finding hidden rules as we played.It is a very convoluted system with a  lot of redundancy and tracking.I found the "player aids" to actually slow down play. It was much faster to use a dice to track things with then the counters.We liked the dice rolling as everyone was excited about the roll but it still after 3 sessions was a labor of adding up what you got to roll.Players just didnt pick up the rules fast enough and so I switched to 4e.The hadnt played it... and in 10 minutes they had gotten the rules and were having fun.They enjoyed wfrp 3e and liked a lot of it but felt it needed streamlined and less bookkeeping. They also liked the grid based combat of 4e and didnt like the abstract range system of warhammer (which I think wasnt a bad idea but not sure if the execution was perfect).They loved the world of warhammer thou. they liked the dark fantasy gothic feel to it but werent excited about the careers they got thou lol.I have two powerpoints - one on character creation and one rules summary for wfrp 3e if anyone wants em.</blockquote>