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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8951877" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Can you give me a single barbarian ability that actually improves their ability to do this better than the fighter or the paladin? Oh, Rage? Their only good combat ability that they get twice per day at low levels, used for the mere act of pulling a cart out of the mud? I've played a barbarian, am playing one right now actually, and the bigger problem isn't that someone might step up and do the strong man stuff, it is that I can't effective due the strong man stuff better than just having athletics proficiency. Because if I do so, then I am making myself useless for combat. But sure, the rogue might have a block and tackle, but so might an artificer, a bard, or a wizard. And they would ALSO be stepping on the barbarian's strong man toes, wouldn't they? What if the Cleric is a Goliath? What if the druid had taken mold earth as a cantrip and used that instead? And this circles back to the thing I've said before. I want different classes to contribute to the same problem with different solutions. The Barbarian should be able to just lift the cart out of the mud with raw muscle. The Druid should be able to turn into an animal and drag it out. The intelligent characters should have options to use tools to do it. Magc characters should have magic solutions. We don't need niche protection, we need different solutions to look different. Especially because not every class is in every party. A 4-man band is only going to have one-third of all possible classes, which means there should be at least three or four classes able to fill each niche. Is turning into a draft horse to pull a cart out of the mud really the major core defining feature of the druid? Is this what every Druid player dreams of, the day they can help a farmer with a stuck cart? No. It is a fun little utility ability that can be amusing. And don't fighters get their iconic abilities at levels 1 and 2? Action surge and Second Wind? Sure, they get more attacks when it is balanced to do so, but it is actually monks who get the most attacks, and they get them by 2nd level. Sure, Wizards can fireball by level five, but they can shape combat with spells at level 1 with things like sleep, magic missiles, burning hands, Find Familiar. No one else is waiting until level 5 for their core identity, and the Druid's core identity isn't even caught up in this idea of becoming a large beast. It is just an amusing option.</blockquote>

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