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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 5842308" data-attributes="member: 3887">Yeah, this is a concern, but there are several relatively simple ways to address it.You could differentiate between core class skills and general skills. Some classes would get a small number of class skills which are superior to what non-class members can do, like thieving skills in AD&D/2e, or a 3e class's EX abilities.EX: any PC can try to hide in the right circumstances, but a thief has a chance to hide that borders on the supernatural. Likewise, any PC can attempt to track, but a ranger's ability to do so works in the most unfavorable conditions and can yield extraordinary results. If you prefer a unified skills framework, you can get the same effect with class-based bonuses/penalties. 2e did this w/tracking. It was a warrior NWP, but non-rangers got a -6 penalty to their check.  Or, you could use something like the skill system I was noodling around with, which ditched most bonuses/penalties in favor of changing the DC/target number based on who was attempting the action, ie, a ranger tracking would roll against a DC of 10, whereas the priest from your example would roll against a DC 15 or 20, depending on how familiar they were with the outdoors-y activities. Well put! Nice and simple. Another idea: cap all non-situational modifiers at a low value like +2, ie, a PC might get a +2 to Spot from training, or +2 from being a elf, but a trained elf is still only +2.There's a lot I like about 4e's skill system, but it still suffers from too wide a variance between specialized/non-specialized characters, which makes setting DC's difficult -- parties end up split between the PCs who can barely make a check and those who can't fail. At least that's how it was in my 4e campaign. I think 4e's skill system would benefit from having fewer ways to boost skill checks or a max bonus per level, or both. What I'm finding playing Pathfinder and running AD&D, is that mechanical specialization of PCs is a fun and rewarding experience --I have gear-head tendencies, too-- outside of actual play. It's essentially a minigame. But what works best in live play is a simpler framework which reduces the difference between specialists/non-specialists in core adventuring activities.</blockquote>

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