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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7690394" data-attributes="member: 7006">As I mentioned above... that's exactly what I suspect people (and WotC) think.The Champion I suspect exists for one reason and one reason only... to provide a less complex melee option in the spirit of the Fighter of old.&nbsp; But in terms of what many people wanted with the Fighter-- to have tactical combat options always at hand like they got in the 4E Fighter-- the Battlemaster is what was created.&nbsp; It has its own combat mechanic (the superiority die fueled maneuver system) that can and could be easily ported to several different classes or subclasses the same way spells are ported and used by several different classes.&nbsp; So the idea that SD and maneuvers wouldn't appear elsewhere seems a little short-sighted.Sure... you could make a Fighter sub-class that just gave stuff to use at the various subclass levels.&nbsp; But without the underlying triggering mechanism of superiority dice... that &quot;stuff&quot; basically are maneuvers freely given.&nbsp; &quot;At-will cantrips&quot; for the melee set, for lack of a better comparison.&nbsp; Which really, we already have... in the Champion.&nbsp; But do we really need another Fighter subclass dedicated to throwing nothing but &quot;melee cantrips&quot;-- low-powered at-will attacks that avoids using the larger mechanic above it?&nbsp; I'm not so sure that we do.&nbsp; I don't really see the gain.&nbsp; Not when there's a fresh new melee game mechanic right there ready to be expanded upon.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7690394, member: 7006"] As I mentioned above... that's exactly what I suspect people (and WotC) think. The Champion I suspect exists for one reason and one reason only... to provide a less complex melee option in the spirit of the Fighter of old. But in terms of what many people wanted with the Fighter-- to have tactical combat options always at hand like they got in the 4E Fighter-- the Battlemaster is what was created. It has its own combat mechanic (the superiority die fueled maneuver system) that can and could be easily ported to several different classes or subclasses the same way spells are ported and used by several different classes. So the idea that SD and maneuvers wouldn't appear elsewhere seems a little short-sighted. Sure... you could make a Fighter sub-class that just gave [i]stuff[/i] to use at the various subclass levels. But without the underlying triggering mechanism of superiority dice... that "stuff" basically are maneuvers freely given. "At-will cantrips" for the melee set, for lack of a better comparison. Which really, we already have... in the Champion. But do we really need another Fighter subclass dedicated to throwing nothing but "melee cantrips"-- low-powered at-will attacks that avoids using the larger mechanic above it? I'm not so sure that we do. I don't really see the gain. Not when there's a fresh new melee game mechanic right there ready to be expanded upon. [/QUOTE]

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