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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5545796" data-attributes="member: 6674931">i admit there is some realism in that.However one could argue that you can use your Reflex save instead, or perhaps your Reflex save plus BAB...IMO its a not a good idea for roguish classes fall behind...As for balance issues concerning melee classes, i believe that if the DM does not give spells for free (and by that i mean that wizards/sorcerers should have a hard time finding spells, consequently keeping their spell list pretty restricted...and that a cleric's deity should interfere more with the clerics actions and spell choices) things do not get broken easily.All this has been implied in the core books... its just a matter of how abundant magic is in the world.This way you don't have to power up the melee classes and consequently interfere with ECL and CR. Also... no matter how much you power up melee classes, there is no way to challenge the spell casting classes in the high levels if their spell lists get out of hand...</blockquote>