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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 5783011" data-attributes="member: 67338">well multi ideas in this thread would still make this diffrent.However in 4e it already goes diffrent. Under 4e a tie would be rare.lets take 5 archers A,B,C,D,and EA is a human Fighter (slayer build)B is a Dragonborn Fighter (weapon master great weapon build)C is a Deva wizard (orb build)D is a Eladrin wizard (wand build)E is a Elf Ranger (archer build)There is no reason for B or C to have any Dex to speak of, and most likley has just a base of 10 in them, and no feats that help archery.Build A and D are dex secondary, so i would put them at 14 and 16 (eladein gets +2) at 1st level. The fighter slayer gets some good use from a bow as his main ranged attack, and since he can shift weapons freely I think he will have an expertise feat to archery (maybe expertise maybe weapon mastery)E is the god of ranged attacks, he starts with an 18 dex, and has expertise bow.at level 20 if all 5 most compete with a regular bow (no magic) we have the following:A is a human Fighter (slayer build) 19 dex  +4, +1 weapon talent, prof +2, +2 feat, +10 levels (+19 to hit)B is a Dragonborn Fighter (weapon master great weapon build) 11dex  +1 weapon talent, +2 prof, + 10 levels (+14 to hit)C is a Deva wizard (orb build) 11dex +10 levels (+10 to hit)D is a Eladrin wizard (wand build) 21 dex +5, +10 levels (+15 to hit)E is a Elf Ranger (archer build) 23 dex +6, + 2 prof, + 2 feat, +10 levels (+20 to hit)So given avrage rolls over time we have Elf ranger (when you add in elven accuracy it just gets worse)a close second is the human figher who has a bow as a secondary weaponthird place is a big jump (4 pts) and goes to the dexderus eladrin wizard4th place goes to a melee fighter who has no intrest in range at all, and is still close to that dexderus wizard5th and final place does go to the 'not even close' guy, the wizard not blessed with genetic advantage isn't even playing the same game.</blockquote>

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