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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5786878" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, its a tried and true setup, going all the way back to at least Marvel Super Heroes damage/hit chart in some form or other. I kind of like the 4e 'no charts needed' thing, but that does have its limits.Well, if your damage rolls are anything like D&D damage rolls, then yes. OTOH there's no reason they HAVE to be. For instance the chart I proposed above could be done away with and a simple procedure used instead as both a 'damage' roll and a 'to-hit' roll. Just multiple a 1-2 die damage roll by your level. That makes a linear distribution (or for 2 dice a mild bell curve) and you get a LOT of variability. (1d8)*10 for instance means you can do anything from nicking the troll to slicing its arm off with your attack. Hit points are abstract so now they become more of what Gygax was talking about, expending luck, skill, fatigue, etc to defend yourself with always diminishing reserves until finally the killing blow lands at 0. If you use something like HS or a physical/non-physical 2 step pool where one recovers and the other needs real healing then it even works better IMHO. But again, I've now constructed a system that bears little relation with anything that most people would call D&D... This does illustrate something though, if you're required to basically go back to 1980 and base your system on the 1980 vintage fighter in essence, there's not a heck of a lot you can do with D&D. I've read a LOT of pretty reasonably interesting concepts for rules that would work well in terms of an FRPG fighter that would satisfy most of the characteristics that people want both in the 4e camp and in the more traditionalist players, but you cannot make a fighter that both has more scope within the rules and follows those 1980 mechanical conventions, and is a decent game design. Something is going to have to give in 5e, either we are going back to "you swing your sword every round" or we have to have things like HS and encounter/daily powers or 'fatigue points' or 'defensive maneuver points' or something at least tacked on.</blockquote>

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