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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5789363" data-attributes="member: 2011">And if there wasn't magic in the game system and monsters had all of the abilities of PCs, this math might mean something.My proof for this is 4E.Fights aren't fair. Ever. PCs always have a huge advantage.If one carefully looks at most above same level 4E encounters, they'll notice something. The NPCs often get the upper hand in the first few rounds. A few PCs are bloodied. Multiple PCs have effects on them. Things look dire. But slowly, the PCs start evening the odds and eventually, they start ripping through the encounter. Why is this if the PCs are losing in round one, that they win in round six?Action Economy.Although one or sometimes even two PCs might be knocked unconscious in an encounter (although most encounters, no PCs are knocked unconscious), they almost always get back up. The monsters almost never get back up.The three things that cause this to happen are:1) Options. PCs tend to have a lot of options. Monsters have only a few. Each player can decide in each situation whether to pull out a big gun, or if a lesser gun will work. Monsters don't have this option too much. They might get one or two Encounter (read Daily cause the monster is not coming back) powers, but once their wad is shot, they're done.2) Healing. PCs often have quite a bit of this. Parties without Leaders aren't completely screwed (they still have #1 and #3), but parties with Leaders just wipe through encounters. Not at the start of the encounter, but part way through. Monsters rarely have healing, so once a monster is down, it typically stays down forever.3) Action Points. PCs already have a "get out of jail card" free option. They get to focus an additional attack when needed. The vast majority of monsters do not have action points.So if the PCs get 5 attacks in round one and the NPCs get 5 attacks in round one, the PCs are still doing 5 attacks in round six whereas the monsters are done to 1 or 2 attacks at that point.By definition, the PCs win. This is how the game is designed to work so that PCs can be heroes that get past level 3. These are the reasons that PCs can take on an encounter 4 levels higher than the group and win. But when an encounter gets to 5 levels or 6 levels higher, it starts becoming really dicey (and even 4 levels higher is often a real challenge). So, I opine that the rationale for adding more "get out of jail free" abilities to the game system is flawed. It's not a straight up math problem. PCs have healing and PCs have many more options than monsters, hence, they win. They don't need even more ways to win. The 4E game system is already extremely easy unless the PCs have run out of Daily resources (powers and/or healing surges).</blockquote>

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