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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 5789546" data-attributes="member: 5889">I agree with your summary of abilities, but I actually think the focus on healing helps my argument.As you said, healing is a central part of what makes the math work...yet the majority is wrapped up in classes that are completely optional to a party. In fact, the 3e model was to make the cleric super powerful because people weren't playing them...and therefore the party as a whole was much weaker.While healing will always have a place, I would like to take some of the burden off its shoulders and insert it into other areas, and this is where I think a fate point type system could be of particular use. 4e already tried the model of giving healing more broadly to all classes (the second wind), and while I think it was a good idea it suffers flavor problems with some people.But I think people are more comfortable with the idea of avoiding damage than healing it, because we have plenty of examples in real life. I have never seen a person pull a spear from their body and instantly heal it. But I have seen people fall off a roof with minimal injury, bash their head against a table and be just fine. Heck, there are real world examples of sky divers losing their parachute, crashing to earth at full speed, and surviving. Now I do agree with you that 4e combat can be too easy, and I think its because healing is overpowered in 4e. It restores so much health, and is so easy to do, that it removes the tension. I have seen a player dropped down to a few hp and then be instantly restored to full from a mere nod of our bard (wasn't even a cleric!), and that happens several times a combat. I think 5e healing should be toned down, but an extra blanket at the bottom isn't a bad idea either.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 5789546, member: 5889"] I agree with your summary of abilities, but I actually think the focus on healing helps my argument. As you said, healing is a central part of what makes the math work...yet the majority is wrapped up in classes that are completely optional to a party. In fact, the 3e model was to make the cleric super powerful because people weren't playing them...and therefore the party as a whole was much weaker. While healing will always have a place, I would like to take some of the burden off its shoulders and insert it into other areas, and this is where I think a fate point type system could be of particular use. 4e already tried the model of giving healing more broadly to all classes (the second wind), and while I think it was a good idea it suffers flavor problems with some people. But I think people are more comfortable with the idea of avoiding damage than healing it, because we have plenty of examples in real life. I have never seen a person pull a spear from their body and instantly heal it. But I have seen people fall off a roof with minimal injury, bash their head against a table and be just fine. Heck, there are real world examples of sky divers losing their parachute, crashing to earth at full speed, and surviving. Now I do agree with you that 4e combat can be too easy, and I think its because healing is overpowered in 4e. It restores so much health, and is so easy to do, that it removes the tension. I have seen a player dropped down to a few hp and then be instantly restored to full from a mere nod of our bard (wasn't even a cleric!), and that happens several times a combat. I think 5e healing should be toned down, but an extra blanket at the bottom isn't a bad idea either. [/QUOTE]

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