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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5791253" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yes, but in some degree or other every possible element of the game is gamist. It is gamist that we use 6 ability scores, etc etc etc. The problem is as soon as you start excusing the argument that one of two equally gamist and abstract mechanics is 'too gamist' you don't even have a place to draw a line anymore and the line being drawn here is to say the least not evenly drawn. It is gerrymandered all over the place around specific mechanics that one particular poster happens to favor for whatever reasons.And again, the 'winding back' we're talking about is really utterly trivial and if you examine it in terms of narrative vs procedures of gameplay you'll find that in the VAST majority of cases it isn't retroactive from the perspective of the story at all. Thus the "it's gamist" argument IS ITSELF A TOTALLY GAMIST ARGUMENT. So I'll prefer to stick with my assessment of it is just a terrible argument.Don't get me wrong though, there's nothing personal about it. I just think that the root of it is that people really don't like any significant variation in mechanics in their D&D. I can see that PoV, but it condemns the game to oblivion in the long run. This is true. I think you can have both though, the 'magical charm', the 'luck bestowed by the gods', and the 'superhuman prowess' type explanations all in one mechanic without any big issues. Does it matter if I collapse the probabilities to zero? I'm only able to do that now and then, and in any case every situation resolves somehow. You roll to hit, you miss or hit, the probability 'collapses' by reason of the target's AC as well. Now, I suppose you could argue that I need not watch my back if I have fate on my side mechanically, but presumably these points are a valuable resource. We were contemplating they would constitute a fairly universal mechanic that would add to character's durability a good bit, so you probably would still be wanting to watch out for backstabs. IME I really doubt it will lead to any harm as a mechanic. Nor does it need to be applicable to a vast array of situations (maybe there's a higher cost and you can deflect more weighty woes from your character, but that would have to be up to the DM I would thing, at least in a game that is ostensibly D&D).</blockquote>

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