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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rpgHQ" data-source="post: 959244" data-attributes="member: 12219">I think you missed my point...that the OGL gives rights that normally are not there. We both agree on that. And between all this posting I think we have shown it very well.The other thing is all the derivative work talk. Game systems do not abide by the definition of this term under copyright laws. Yes the SRD has explanations that describe the game system and those parts are copyrightable. You cant just yank a publishers descriptive text word for word and use it. However, with game systems you can publish similiar work. Theres only so many ways to express a particular system of rules and methods.  So it doesnt matter if someone bases their game off the SRD, derivative work doesnt apply in the way it does for a novel.Armor Class, Feat, Skills, and so on and so forth are all the means and methods of a game system. My whole point is that parts of the OGL are misleading in the manner of its wording, and many many people confuse the definitions in it with being enforceable under copyright law. So for example, the SRD, one could publish a game system using the same rules, though they would have to use their own words to describe the system and methods and concepts. However theres only so many ways you can describe what a fireball is or what a bonus modifier means and is. And copyright law understands this and lists game systems separately from other copyrightable works and that most things do not apply to them. The above paragraph for example if i published it would be protected from someone else using it word for word in their work, it doesnt stop them from rephrasing it.Yes the SRD is a published work, but as its a means of describing a game system, normal laws covering derivative works does not apply. Well, they apply to a certaint extent but not to the extent that many try to make it out to be.The fireball spell again as example. Yes the exact text in its description is copyright. Lets break it down by whats covered by copyright law. I'll just tack on a yes or no.Fireball (no)Evocation[Fire] (no)Level: Sor/Wiz 3 (no)Components: V, S, M (no)Casting Time: 1 action (no)Range: Long (400 ft + 40ft/level) (no)Area: 20-ft.-radius spread (no)Duration: Instantaneous (no)Saving Throw: Reflex half (no)A fireball spell is a burst....[snipped out to keep post size down]....A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur.. (yes)That stat list is made up of the system, methods, ideas, and concepts of a game system along with being short phrases and names. Now if I came along and published a game book with the same format above but used my own words to describe the fireball, even if they end up saying the same thing, though not word for word, I would be ok Like how in a cookbook its the descriptive part that is copyrightable not the list of ingredients. Also the way its listed is a pretty common format of use just like in a cookbook, baseball cards, real estate listing and so on. A character(NPC or whatever) in a game book, in its literary form, not game system expression, is copyrightable, and his name is trademarkable, like good old Elminster, as a service mark. I understand full well that the OGL is a means of giving royalty free license to other publishers. My whole arguement is that the OGL gives rights to one party or the other that it should not give. The name of a spell or creature and so on. Theres a differance between Blade Demon and Drahkar The Blade Demon. The latter is trademarkable, while the former is not. And neither is copyrightable.And as I stated before the OGL is a good thing and especially good for those wishing to use the d20stl. The wording of the PI definition is a means to circumvent the lack of a game system being covered under standard literary/derivative works copyright law. That defeats the whole purpose of an 'OPEN SOURCE' concept. Most of the OGL is fine and dandy and protects what it should protect while still allowing open use of other publishers work. But it DOES circumvent copyright law with those very few things I have stated before. And yes jim I understand this is a ogl forum, we're talking about the ogl here. Both of you say copyright and trademark have nothing to do with it yet you both fall back on it in describing how a royalty license works. But I am glad you all responded directly to my posts as it gave me a chance to better explain what I was driven at from the get go.With that all said and done I will refrain from posting further here on it as the tone is becoming less than civilized (sounded like a mustard commercial there for a moment <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> or was that a not real butter commercial?)Not because you are telling me to 'take it elsewhere', but because I feel the tone of the posting is degrading into the beginnings of a flame-like thread. Theres no reason for that and with people basically telling me to 'shutup'. I dont like being shouted down when I bring up valid points and then have folks try to twist it around and make it sound like I am saying something other than what I am. We can keep the discussion here or take it elsewhere but only if folks 'play nice'.Once again I wish to state that I got nothing against what the OGL does on the WHOLE, its a great tool for publishers when combined with the d20stl. And by itself its close to being an OPEN Source/Royalty Free License, except for those very few items I have been discussing and trying to explain.</blockquote>

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