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<blockquote data-quote="jsaving" data-source="post: 4231547" data-attributes="member: 16726">This was inevitable, I think, once the designers decided to streamline/simplify 4e into a standard good-versus evil setup.&nbsp; A second alignment dimension encourages the very team-ups the designers are trying to squelch, with good and evil characters uniting in the name of freedom or security or laws or tradition.&nbsp; So all that stuff had to be scrapped, leaving Law and Chaos with nothing except the &quot;sinful&quot; pieces, like lying and poisoning.My conjecture is that Law now equals what one might call &quot;honorable-Good,&quot; the kind of guy who keeps his word and realizes that ends cannot justify means.&nbsp; Whereas Chaos now equals &quot;dishonorable-Evil,&quot; the kind of guy who lies/poisons/backstabs as necessary to move ahead.&nbsp; And under this framework it just doesn't make sense to keep CG in the game, because just about everybody who was CG under the more expansive 3e definition of the term wouldn't be considered CG under the much-restricted 4e definition.Is this setup a good idea?&nbsp; I don't think so, myself -- it betrays a lack of creativity and puts far too much emphasis on simplicity for simplicity's sake.&nbsp; But it would certainly explain why the designers seem so convinced that CG/LE have no place in the game -- because for them, under the very limited 4e conception of what Law and Chaos mean, CG and LE actually *don't* have a place in the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jsaving, post: 4231547, member: 16726"] This was inevitable, I think, once the designers decided to streamline/simplify 4e into a standard good-versus evil setup. A second alignment dimension encourages the very team-ups the designers are trying to squelch, with good and evil characters uniting in the name of freedom or security or laws or tradition. So all that stuff had to be scrapped, leaving Law and Chaos with nothing except the "sinful" pieces, like lying and poisoning. My conjecture is that Law now equals what one might call "honorable-Good," the kind of guy who keeps his word and realizes that ends cannot justify means. Whereas Chaos now equals "dishonorable-Evil," the kind of guy who lies/poisons/backstabs as necessary to move ahead. And under this framework it just doesn't make sense to keep CG in the game, because just about everybody who was CG under the more expansive 3e definition of the term wouldn't be considered CG under the much-restricted 4e definition. Is this setup a good idea? I don't think so, myself -- it betrays a lack of creativity and puts far too much emphasis on simplicity for simplicity's sake. But it would certainly explain why the designers seem so convinced that CG/LE have no place in the game -- because for them, under the very limited 4e conception of what Law and Chaos mean, CG and LE actually *don't* have a place in the game. [/QUOTE]

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