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<blockquote data-quote="Sigma" data-source="post: 90745" data-attributes="member: 3066">The range of fireball is long.&nbsp; A 13th level caster could be 900 feet away (aka, 300 yards) in an empty field throwing fireballs.&nbsp; The summoner on the other hand decides that he's thirteenth level, and figures that an air elemental flys at a speed of 100, so he should just cast it at the edge of his range (55 feet) and send it to pummel his enemies.&nbsp; Off goes the elemental, traveling for 6 rounds (half the duration) and making it 600 feet towards the party.&nbsp; In the meantime, the wizard has decided he's too close, and has spent the 6 rounds moving away from it and the party.&nbsp; He's now 360 feet away himself (60*6).&nbsp; Total distance between the two:&nbsp; 1045 feet.&nbsp; About 145 feet further away than the fireballing wizard.&nbsp; That's one of the more extreme examples I can find, and I can't say that I find it all that compelling.&nbsp; Sure, you can make the situation optimal for the summoner (he's in town/behind barriers/difficult to find), but you could just as easily make it optimal for the fireballer (he's behind a thick iron wall with an arrow slit and the party is trapped in a 20' wide corridor, sipping sherry from the safety of the wall if he wants).&nbsp; The planar ally spells I could see awarding xp, but not the summon monster ones.&nbsp; As one final note, ECL's are different from CR's because the creature's abilities come up every game session, and not just in the few rounds the players encounter a creature before offing it.&nbsp; Similarly, there is a big difference between having to fight a bebelith until its hit points are 0, and having to endure a bebilith's attacks until 4 rounds have passed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sigma, post: 90745, member: 3066"] The range of fireball is long. A 13th level caster could be 900 feet away (aka, 300 yards) in an empty field throwing fireballs. The summoner on the other hand decides that he's thirteenth level, and figures that an air elemental flys at a speed of 100, so he should just cast it at the edge of his range (55 feet) and send it to pummel his enemies. Off goes the elemental, traveling for 6 rounds (half the duration) and making it 600 feet towards the party. In the meantime, the wizard has decided he's too close, and has spent the 6 rounds moving away from it and the party. He's now 360 feet away himself (60*6). Total distance between the two: 1045 feet. About 145 feet further away than the fireballing wizard. That's one of the more extreme examples I can find, and I can't say that I find it all that compelling. Sure, you can make the situation optimal for the summoner (he's in town/behind barriers/difficult to find), but you could just as easily make it optimal for the fireballer (he's behind a thick iron wall with an arrow slit and the party is trapped in a 20' wide corridor, sipping sherry from the safety of the wall if he wants). The planar ally spells I could see awarding xp, but not the summon monster ones. As one final note, ECL's are different from CR's because the creature's abilities come up every game session, and not just in the few rounds the players encounter a creature before offing it. Similarly, there is a big difference between having to fight a bebelith until its hit points are 0, and having to endure a bebilith's attacks until 4 rounds have passed. [/QUOTE]

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