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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7906553" data-attributes="member: 6779196">I think it depends on how that stuff is set up, really. If it’s just hidden stuff the players will never know exists if they don’t happen to ask to check for secret doors in the right place or whatever, then I agree, only the DM gets any satisfaction from that. But, if it’s intentionally placed based on in-fiction logic, and there are environmental cues that point towards its existence, then I think it can enrich the players’ experience.Take, for example, the classic hidden room indicated by the space it fills being blank on the map. Obviously that only works in an old-school dungeon crawl where the players map every room in detail, but it’s a very easy to grokk example of what I’m talking about. That’s something potentially highly satisfying for the players to find - their attention to detail and diligence in mapping paid off by revealing to them something cool they wouldn’t have otherwise found, and that feels good. It triggers the reward centers of your brain and gives you that sweet dopamine hit. But it would not be satisfying if the DM just moved that hidden room because the players didn’t find it. There’d be a blank space on the map for no reason, and whatever secrets are in the room would just be more loot instead of a special reward for the players’ diligence.Granted, if the players have no idea they missed anything, they obviously don’t get anything out of it. But I would argue that a DM who is hiding things in such a way that players are likely to have no idea they missed them is... I don’t want to say “doing it wrong,” but they’re putting in a lot of effort that is unlikely to have any payoff. On the other hand, if the players can tell they missed something but can’t figure out what, or they make the decision that the potential reward isn’t worth the risk of taking the time to find it, that’s still valuable. That’s still enriching their experience.This is why I am a strong advocate of telegraphing hidden elements and ensuring that actions have costs and/or consequences. Sometimes players will pick up on the telegraph, sometimes they won’t. Sometimes they’ll pick up on it but decide the cost of following up on it isn’t worth it, sometimes they’ll burn resources in pursuit of the telegraphed secret. All of these are outcomes that enrich the player experience, in my opinion, except maybe when they don’t pick up on the telegraph, and that risk is in my opinion well worth it for all that the other possibilities add to the game.</blockquote>

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