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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 7909995" data-attributes="member: 6802765">Thanks for taking the time to clarify! I agree with your second paragraph completely. There is a definitely a notable playstyle whose adherents prefer location-based games without storyline and are also very much against moving clues. I think your explanation for why is spot-on.I disagree with a few points in your first paragraph, however. As I tried to explain above, I don't think defining sandbox games as location-based games is a useful definition, even in the limited context of this discussion. Sandboxes have a great deal of diversity, and only discussing sandboxes that happen to be location-based excludes a wide variety of playstyles that are relevant to the conversation.To illustrate why, consider (for example) the playstyle that prefers improvised sandboxes, with content created on-the-fly in response to the character's actions, based on the DM's assement of what the players would find immediately enjoyable and/or satisfying over the long run. I wouldn't consider this type of sandbox to be location-based under either your definition (it isn't necessarily story-free) or under a broader definition (campaign content is not determined by where the players decide the PCs go). But the techniques used by this style are relevant to the current discussion, because they're an example of "moving clues" where the impetus is unrelated to trying to keep the PCs on a pre-written plot. These techniques (i.e. making changes in the game world in response to player engagement, session timing, or other OOC factors) are thus potentially applicable in location-based games that lack a plot. A DM in a location-based game could, for example, decide to fudge a random encounter roll to provide a timely combat when players are losing interest, or skip such a roll near the end of the session when players are tired. It sounds like [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] and [USER=6859536]@Monayuris[/USER] would hate that type of player-focused change just as much as plot-driven changes, even though it's a tool that does have a use in the context of location-based games. Discussing why--and whether there are other fans of location-based games who would be fine with player-focused changes--would seem to be very pertinent to this thread.I hope that better explains why I think restricting discussion of sandboxes to location-based games isn't a useful definition in this conversation. Similarly, I don't see utility in focusing on delineating event-based games from location-based games. The dichotomy that delineation creates seems to limit the range of styles that might have bearing on the topic.</blockquote>

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