No flames please - tell me about Greyhawk...

[Terraism]

I have to admit that my knowledge of Greyhawk begins and ends with the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer. I like the setting, but it doesn't seem to be as open as so many people suggest - it's war-torn enough, and specific enough, that I don't know why it's touted as such. Is this a new development? Or is there a lot more space than I'm giving it credit for? Can someone (without directing me to one of the two prominent Oerth sites on the web - I've been there, and they don't answer my question,) give me an outline of what it was and how it's changed - and maybe a short summary of important products I should look for?

 

[Cyronax]

Greyhawk 101

Greyhawk in its first incarnations in the early 80's had no where near the detail that it got in the 2nd edtion. These early products (the 1980 Greyhawk Folio and the 1983 Boxed Set) were little more than a brief history, maps, and a thumbnail of all but the most basic information on the individual lands of Greyhawk. It was mostly left up to the DM as to which country fought which country. Many old school GH fans base their idea of Greyhawk on those old products.

If you like that kind of world you can find a really recent and cheap version of Greyhawk in the the D&D Gazeteer. I have both the Living Greyhawk Journal and the Gazeteer, and I find both really useful. The Gazeteer uses the same format as the Folio, and it has all you need to get the barebones of the world down.

Also I suggest you get the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. It really harkens back to the old classic Greyhawk adventures, and Temple gives you a great place to start a campaign at (if you rework Hommlett a little to work for 1st level characters). I think that module and the Forge of Fury are the two best adventures put out by Wizards of the Coast since the 3rd edition came out.

 

[The Green Man]

So is Scarred Lands w/ only the Gazetteer about the level of detail "old-school" Greyhawk had?

 

[Geoffrey]

Exactly so, Green Man. That's one of the reasons I like the Scarred Lands gazetteer. Plus it's not cluttered up with d20 stats.

In fact, the overall design and style of the SL gazetteer is modelled after the 1980 Greyhawk folio.

 

[Terraism]

Re: Greyhawk 101

Also I suggest you get the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. It really harkens back to the old classic Greyhawk adventures, and Temple gives you a great place to start a campaign at (if you rework Hommlett a little to work for 1st level characters). I think that module and the Forge of Fury are the two best adventures put out by Wizards of the Coast since the 3rd edition came out.

I've got Return, and I really like it - it just seemed that the setting, what with the politics and such described in the LGG, wasn't something that had many open holes for the DM to fill in... you say that the Gazeteer has more info? How about other stuff? Huh peoples? Any site with a list, WITH INFO of older Greyhawk products? (I've found a listing, but no product descriptions...)

 

[Bugbear]

At this time I would like to make a nonsencical coment about how Greyhawk isn't as good as it used to be, followed by a number of Disparaging remarks concerning various Game designers, as well as miscelanous derogitory remarks about anyone who disagrees with me...
But since Terraism asked for no flames, I won't

 

[Cyronax]

.....

Terraism, I used to own some of the older Greyhawk products.....I stupidly sold them to my old DM for a quick fix of cash, but whatver.......

Anyway, the products I really liked when I had them were:

1983's World of Greyhawk Boxed Set

A1-4 The Slave Lords...this was a string of cool adventures that I think you can still find on Ebay or elsewhere.

The original Temple of Elemental Evil....this book was more toned down on earth shattering importance (anything with Tharizdun tends to jack up the CR level.....). It detailed Hommlet when it was much smaller, and the PCs only have to deal with Iuz and Zuggtmoy.

The Cult of the Reptile God....the first GH adventure I ever ran. This IMO was a really cool adventure that was set near Hochoch in the Sheldomar Valley. Its pretty tightly written, and its got a lots cool stuff in it.

Those are the few 1st edition titles I was lucky enough to have (at one time). Some others are now free at TSR's websites. If I remember correctly the modules were the Secrets of Bone Hill, Palace of the Silver Princess, and possibly the old version of the Tomb of Horrors (this might not be on anymore).

Another favorite of mine is not specifically Greyhawk, but it definetely has its roots there. Its the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set. This high level adventure was one of the best written adventures I've seen. Its up there with Monte Cook's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Hope that helped,
C.I.D.

 

[grodog]

If you're looking for a general intro, there really isn't one, although some folks have been tossing around the idea of writing one for www.Canonfire.com for awhile.

Erik Mona wrote up a brilliant publishing history of the setting back on the old boards, which I printed. I don't recall if the old posts are being moved over here or not, but it appears that Search is down at the moment, so I couldn't find it even if it had been moved over. I have a copy of the post saved at work, I think, though, if you're interested in the various stages of Greyhawk published products.

You'll find that a lot of people tend to conglomerate into time periods of GH history, in terms of when they run their games as well as which version of GH they prefer:

• 576 CY (the era for the 1980 folio and the 1983 box set, "classic" Greyhawk as written in 1e)
• 585 CY (the era for Carl Sargent's From the Ashes box set and his sequel supplements, which detail the aftermath of the Greyhawk Wars)
• 591 CY (the era for Roger E. Moore's Greyhawk: the Adventure Begins and the beginning of the Living Greyhawk era, along the 3e Greyhawk content as the default campaign setting)

I'm painting in broad strokes here, but you get the idea, I'm sure. In each era, the publishing efforts were different:

• 576 CY features lots of ideas written by many different 1e Greyhawk authors, broadcast into the setting (since it was the default 1e world); lots of details exist, but they're very modular and can be added/subtracted without much difficulty
• 585 CY primarily features Carl Sargent's vision of the setting, and is much more detailed than the original materials; you can still add/subtract stuff, but it's more difficult, since Sargent wrote Greyhawk material from a unified viewpoint which built upon the details from FtA in his sourcebooks
• 591 CY returns to the idea of a broader vision for Greyhawk, more loose than Sargent's vision, but not as free-for-all as 1e Greyhawk was; Greyhawk is more modular, and the Sargent-era Greyhawk Wars are pretty much over and done with

I'm not sure now if I've simply babbled too much, or answered you original query, Terrasim?